Eva Murry falsely accuses Biden of complimenting her breasts

[Fuzzy Bear]

Paradoxically it seems that having sexual harassment allegations against male candidates in the US don’t seem to work against people in a general election. Look at Trump, WJC, and JFK. I don’t think Republicans running on “Biden is a sexual predator” is a winner among the WWC swing voters. That’s my #hottake

Don’t disagree, but did JFK really have sexual harassment allegations against him while he was alive, let alone before the election? I thought most of that stuff didn’t come out until after his death.

It was not.  JFK's philandering was an open secret during the 1960 campaign, but it was never spoken of by the Press Corps.  J. Edgar Comey Hoover was well aware of this, however, and used it as blackmail to keep his job.

[Fuzzy Bear]

For the millionth time: We should have nominated Bernie.

Republicans would be throwing these same stories at Bernie, or Warren, or Pete, or anyone we nominated. They literally promised to do so in 2018 as revenge for Kavanaugh.

When did they promise to engage in slander and libel?

Or is it slander and libel when a Republican is accused, but "Standing Up For Women!" when is accused?  Do we Believe All Women?  Or do we disbelieve women who accuse Democrats because it's inconvenient and work to actively trash their reputations HONESTLY vet all accusations, and not put the confirming/debunking process solely in the hands of an incredibly biased media?

Keep in mind that I've not DIS-believed Blasey Ford, nor did I support Kavanaugh's confirmation.  Nor have I said that I believe Reade's accusations.  In a Court of Law, neither accusation would stand up.  But in a background interview for any number of sensitive positions, both accusations, and the evidence behind them, would be sufficient grounds to not hire the prospective applicant for law enforcement or any number of positions that would require a Security Clearance.

On this issue, the issue of who do we believe, the Democrats are exposed as having to backtrack on something they presented as axiomatic in 2018.  "Believe All Women"; that was the mantra.  That some Leftist Politician would step up to a mic and say "I believe Dr. Blasey Ford!" with the proper seriousness and go into a melodramatic spiel about victims being silenced and needing vocal advocacy is presented as EVIDENCE, when it is somwhere between ADVOCACY and PROPAGANDA.  Advocacy and Propoganda are not evidence, period.  There WAS evidence that Dr. Blasey Ford was telling the truth.  There was some evidence to place her truthfulness in doubt.  In the end, there really is not enough evidence to meet the Probable Cause standard against Kavanaugh.  But I wouldn't hire Kavanaugh to be a cop or a Federal Prosecutor.

I fail to see, however, how Tara Reade's accusation is any less credible than Dr. Blasey Ford's.  It's certainly in the same general "she said/he said" range, with reasons to believe and reasons to doubt for both.  Neither allegation meets a Probable Cause standard.  The ALLEGED CIRCUMSTANCES of Kavanaugh's alleged acts are more serious, but the alleged circumstances of Biden's alleged acts against Reade do rise to the level of a criminal offense, and were allegedly committed when Biden was a sitting Senator, whereas Kavanaugh's alleged actions were committed when he was 17 years old, not even a legal adult.

Perhaps what I would like to see is not Democrats throwing Biden to the wolves.  Biden deserves to be treated fairly, but so does Kavanaugh.  Kavanaugh is treated like a Sex Offender, whereas Biden is treated as a Victim of a Wrongful Accuser.  That's not right.  If we're going to consider the allegations against Kavanaugh as legitimate and the proper course of action to be to keep digging until there is enough evidence to impeach him, why should we do less in regard to allegations with the same level of overall credibility leveled against a man who, at this writing, is the person most likely to be President on January 21, 2021?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Anybody who thinks Ford and Reade are comparable has been filtered from future opinion consideration. Reade has every few years (nowadays, once or so per week) been frequently and loudly inconsistent about, like, basic facts around her own life both related to and independent of this accusation from 27 years ago. Ford had tons of material evidence to prove that her story had basically not changed over 35 years.

Dr. Ford was a credible person with a serious allegation that was never actually investigated, and Tara Reade is an uncredible person with a serious allegation that is being currently vetted in the wide open public view.

I've heard it suggested that Ramirez is a closer parallel here and I'm still going to disagree with that. Maybe the story about the fight on the boat is a good link.

The highlighted part is a slick use of words.  Dr. Ford's allegation has never been investigated, but it has certainly been "vetted", and continues to be "vetted".  Tara Reade's investigation has also never been investigated; it's being vetted without investigation as we speak.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Why are they going out of their way to soil this man’s reputation over some stuff they know didn’t happen? This is heinous and filthy. These people should be ashamed of themselves.

People should be ashamed of themselves.  But Biden is reaping the harvest of the "Believe All Women" rhetoric.  Rhetoric that, at its heart, advocates abandoning the principles of the presumption of innocence and guilt being proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Is it possible that Kavanaugh is guilty, but Biden is innocent?  Of course it is.  Is it possible that this is a dirty trick against Biden?  Of course it's possible.  Is it possible that Dr. Blasey Ford is lying about Kavanaugh?  That's possible as well.  The battle over Roe is for keeps, and I don't put anything past anyone on that score.  Is is also possible that Kavanaugh is innocent and Biden is guilty?  Yes, that's a possibility as well.  

In truth, the #MeToo movement is one of the most dangerous movements that has ever risen up to prominence because it erodes the concepts that prevent innocent people from being convicted of crimes.  It erodes the principle of Gary Dotson's imprisonment on a false rape charge is a worse event than Brett Kavanaugh or Joe Biden possibly committing sexual assaults and not being charged, let alone convicted.  Justice requires difficult tasks on the part of those seeking justice, and those tasks involve meeting standards of proof and allowing witnesses to be confronted by a defendant in Court.  Vengeance requires only misguided passion and zeal.  At it's heart, the #MeToo movement is about vengeance.  Such movements rarely evolve to where justice comes out of them.

[Fuzzy Bear]

She had 7 friends corroborate her story and it's a complete lie? That calls into question the value of "corroborating witnesses" for future claims of sexual harassment and assault in politics. She got 7 people to lie for her.

This is the real issue.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Why are they going out of their way to soil this man’s reputation over some stuff they know didn’t happen? This is heinous and filthy. These people should be ashamed of themselves.

People should be ashamed of themselves.  But Biden is reaping the harvest of the "Believe All Women" rhetoric.  Rhetoric that, at its heart, advocates abandoning the principles of the presumption of innocence and guilt being proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Is it possible that Kavanaugh is guilty, but Biden is innocent?  Of course it is.  Is it possible that this is a dirty trick against Biden?  Of course it's possible.  Is it possible that Dr. Blasey Ford is lying about Kavanaugh?  That's possible as well.  The battle over Roe is for keeps, and I don't put anything past anyone on that score.  Is is also possible that Kavanaugh is innocent and Biden is guilty?  Yes, that's a possibility as well.  

In truth, the #MeToo movement is one of the most dangerous movements that has ever risen up to prominence because it erodes the concepts that prevent innocent people from being convicted of crimes.  It erodes the principle of Gary Dotson's imprisonment on a false rape charge is a worse event than Brett Kavanaugh or Joe Biden possibly committing sexual assaults and not being charged, let alone convicted.  Justice requires difficult tasks on the part of those seeking justice, and those tasks involve meeting standards of proof and allowing witnesses to be confronted by a defendant in Court.  Vengeance requires only misguided passion and zeal.  At it's heart, the #MeToo movement is about vengeance.  Such movements rarely evolve to where justice comes out of them.

I don't necessarily disagree with your post, but I still find your insistence on comparing the allegations of Reade and Blasey Ford to be exceptionally odd. They are fundamentally different cases with different evidence both for and against their validity.

True enough.  A key similarity, however, is that the circumstances in neither case add up to Probable Cause that a crime was committed.  Further evidence may come to light, but as of now, neither case meets the Probable Cause standard.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Or how about both of them are just flat out lying?

You're vested in this narrative, and you'll say this, regardless of the facts.

And you may be right.  Both of them may, indeed, be flat out lying.  The solution to that is for Democrats to walk back the ridiculous aspects of the #MeToo movement.  It IS possible to bring sexual offenders to justice without trashing the principles of the defendant being presumed innocent, the right of a defendant to confront witnesses and put forth defenses, and the requirement that guilt be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  Because it's better that Christine Blasey Ford be doubted and Brett Kavanaugh not be prosecuted that Cathleen Crowell Webb making a false allegation and Gary Dotson spending years in prison in Illinois.

[Fuzzy Bear]

For the millionth time: We should have nominated Bernie.

Republicans would be throwing these same stories at Bernie, or Warren, or Pete, or anyone we nominated. They literally promised to do so in 2018 as revenge for Kavanaugh.

When did they promise to engage in slander and libel?

Or is it slander and libel when a Republican is accused, but "Standing Up For Women!" when is accused?  Do we Believe All Women?  Or do we disbelieve women who accuse Democrats because it's inconvenient and work to actively trash their reputations HONESTLY vet all accusations, and not put the confirming/debunking process solely in the hands of an incredibly biased media?

Keep in mind that I've not DIS-believed Blasey Ford, nor did I support Kavanaugh's confirmation.  Nor have I said that I believe Reade's accusations.  In a Court of Law, neither accusation would stand up.  But in a background interview for any number of sensitive positions, both accusations, and the evidence behind them, would be sufficient grounds to not hire the prospective applicant for law enforcement or any number of positions that would require a Security Clearance.

On this issue, the issue of who do we believe, the Democrats are exposed as having to backtrack on something they presented as axiomatic in 2018.  "Believe All Women"; that was the mantra.  That some Leftist Politician would step up to a mic and say "I believe Dr. Blasey Ford!" with the proper seriousness and go into a melodramatic spiel about victims being silenced and needing vocal advocacy is presented as EVIDENCE, when it is somwhere between ADVOCACY and PROPAGANDA.  Advocacy and Propoganda are not evidence, period.  There WAS evidence that Dr. Blasey Ford was telling the truth.  There was some evidence to place her truthfulness in doubt.  In the end, there really is not enough evidence to meet the Probable Cause standard against Kavanaugh.  But I wouldn't hire Kavanaugh to be a cop or a Federal Prosecutor.

I fail to see, however, how Tara Reade's accusation is any less credible than Dr. Blasey Ford's.  It's certainly in the same general "she said/he said" range, with reasons to believe and reasons to doubt for both.  Neither allegation meets a Probable Cause standard.  The ALLEGED CIRCUMSTANCES of Kavanaugh's alleged acts are more serious, but the alleged circumstances of Biden's alleged acts against Reade do rise to the level of a criminal offense, and were allegedly committed when Biden was a sitting Senator, whereas Kavanaugh's alleged actions were committed when he was 17 years old, not even a legal adult.

Perhaps what I would like to see is not Democrats throwing Biden to the wolves.  Biden deserves to be treated fairly, but so does Kavanaugh.  Kavanaugh is treated like a Sex Offender, whereas Biden is treated as a Victim of a Wrongful Accuser.  That's not right.  If we're going to consider the allegations against Kavanaugh as legitimate and the proper course of action to be to keep digging until there is enough evidence to impeach him, why should we do less in regard to allegations with the same level of overall credibility leveled against a man who, at this writing, is the person most likely to be President on January 21, 2021?

Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist who faced an extremely credible allegation supported by actual evidence which still has not been seriously investigated.  Biden was falsely accused of...what, exactly?  Rape?  Sexual Assault?  Sexual Harassment?  Kidnapping the Lindbergh baby?  Sorry, Reade’s changed the most fundamental aspects of her story so often that I can’t even keep track of what she’s accusing Biden of.  Her allegations are not even remotely credible and the so-called “evidence” has more holes in it than a wheel of Swiss cheese.  

The efforts by some Republicans to warp the meaning of “believe all women” and pretend there is any equivalency between Dr. Ford and Tara Reade’s allegations are simply not rooted in objective reality at best and a deliberate effort by morally-bankrupt bad-faith hacks to peddle a false rape allegation for political gain at worst.  There is no comparison and to equate this allegations is a slap in the face to every sex crime victim in America.

You may not be posting in bad-faith, Fuzzy, but you’re simply wrong on this one all the same.

C'mon, man!

The Democratic Left said it.  "BelieveAllWomen".  People either mean what they say or they don't. 

Let the Democratic Left EXPLICITLY walk that back, and let that revised standard apply to Kavanaugh as well.  Because Kavanaugh's guilt is far from a slam dunk.  It's far from Probable Cause.

[Fuzzy Bear]

C'mon, man!

The Democratic Left said it.  "BelieveAllWomen".  People either mean what they say or they don't.

I'm still looking for an example of someone using the "Believe All Women" line unironically. "Believe Women," sure, but "Believe All Women" sounds like a Republican strawman. Searching on Twitter, that's all I see.

https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/believeallwomen/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/believeallwomen-takes-another-blow-time-military/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/opinion/metoo-sexual-harassment-believe-women.html

No, it's not a Republican strawman.  Bari Weiss's article goes back to 2017.

Which women do we believe, and at what points do we believe them?  Because this whole thing makes the issue appear to be one where we #BelieveWomenWhoAccuseTheOtherParty'sCandidate.  And, yes, there are many Republicans who have lived by this creed.  But it's the Democrats whose awful advocacy on this issue has done the most damage to Due Process and the Presumption of Innocence for criminal defendants with their advocacy.  It's Democrats who have the present need to walk back the absurd position and take some responsibility for the absurdity when clarifying it.

[Fuzzy Bear]

C'mon, man!

The Democratic Left said it.  "BelieveAllWomen".  People either mean what they say or they don't.

I'm still looking for an example of someone using the "Believe All Women" line unironically. "Believe Women," sure, but "Believe All Women" sounds like a Republican strawman. Searching on Twitter, that's all I see.

https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/believeallwomen/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/believeallwomen-takes-another-blow-time-military/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/opinion/metoo-sexual-harassment-believe-women.html

No, it's not a Republican strawman.  Bari Weiss's article goes back to 2017.

Which women do we believe, and at what points do we believe them?  Because this whole thing makes the issue appear to be one where we #BelieveWomenWhoAccuseTheOtherParty'sCandidate.  And, yes, there are many Republicans who have lived by this creed.  But it's the Democrats whose awful advocacy on this issue has done the most damage to Due Process and the Presumption of Innocence for criminal defendants with their advocacy.  It's Democrats who have the present need to walk back the absurd position and take some responsibility for the absurdity when clarifying it.

You linked me an instagram search full of conservatives mocking the idea of #BelieveAllWomen and two articles from anti #MeToo writers being like "hey, I guess it's not ALL women is it??"

So ... exactly what I said would be out there. It's mind-boggling that you actually thought that posting those links would be what I'm looking for, when I made it clear that I'd already seen that kind of thing and wanted some source of a liberal (well, really a pro-#MeToo) saying it unironically.

Bari Weiss of the NYT is hardle a conservative.