Trump mocks John and Debbie Dingell at Michigan rally

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Debbie’s response-

https://twitter.com/repdebdingell/status/1207494427968716801?s=21

Two wrongs don't make a right, and Trump was wrong for making that statement.

That being said, this impeachment is a sham.  There is no Constitiutional basis for impeaching Trump.  One may find reasons to not vote for Trump in the endless words of the various reports, but there is not a high crime or misdemeanor documented.

Debbie Dingell didn't rise above politics.  She's all about politics.  That doesn't make her an HP, but we are all out of statesmen and stateswomen.  As for John Dingell:  "De mortuis, nil nisi bonum."  Perhaps Trump would do well to bone up on Latin.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

The audience was clearly not amused.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1207485852013625345?s=21

That was some messed up sh**t, made me want to throw up

Trump will get flak for this, and he's (once again) brought it on himself. 

On the other hand, Trump has not been treated with any sort of fairness for five (5) minutes.  "Obstruction of Congress"  Give me a break.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

That doesn't make her an HP, but we are all out of statesmen and stateswomen.

Why not try being one yourself rather than devoting your forum presence to tirelessly defending or (in this case) equivocating obvious wrongdoing from a politician you happen to support?

I could say the same for you, and for most of the forum, including many I view as FFs.  You're not a bad person, but you show rank partisanship in your posts and you don't deviate from your leftist perspective.  That's fine; it really is, but you're just one more person here who can apply the adage:  "Let it begin with me!".

People have been unfair to President Trump since DAY ONE.  People were bound and determined to stop him from being the GOP Nominee, and from being the President.  And people were enraged when Trump crashed the party and won the election.  

The entire investigation process and impeachment process is a sham.  There are reasons to not vote for Trump, but no reason to impeach him.  THAT'S my statesman position.  

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

The audience was clearly not amused.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1207485852013625345?s=21

That was some messed up sh**t, made me want to throw up

Trump will get flak for this, and he's (once again) brought it on himself. 

On the other hand, Trump has not been treated with any sort of fairness for five (5) minutes.  "Obstruction of Congress"  Give me a break.

Are you incapable of making a single half-decent post without completely invalidating it in the second half?

I could argue that you've never made a HALF-decent post, by that logic.

“It is time for us as Democrats to be as tough as they are, to be as dedicated as they are, to be as committed as they are.  Michelle [Obama] says ‘when they go low, we go high.’ No. When they go low we kick them.”

I mean think about it:  Here's a person that his political opponents have been calling a Russian asset, a traitor, a neo-Nazi, and doing so routinely.  They have openly taken the strategy of "refusing to normalize" Trump.  They have been routinely referring to him as a "dictator" and worse.  They have openly planned to impeach him before he even took office.  This has never happened to any President, and the media, which was rarely capable of even thoughtful criticism of Obama, announced that the impeachment process had begun on the day he was inaugurated.  And none of THAT has been justified.  None of it.

So let change begin with you.  You go first.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

It was a wrong statement by Trump, and there is no defense for it.  It's one of the worst statements in politics I've ever heard.

The "whataboutism" that people complain about, however, is legitimate.  Jesse Jackson has never refuted his comments about New York being "H----town" in 1984, and Democrats running for President still make their way to his Rainbow PUSH Coalition events to seek his approval, and I don't see anyone here apologizing on behalf of the Democratic Party for the fact that its candidates still make their way to an open anti-Semite.  To this day, Al Sharpton refused to admit he perpetrated a hoax in the Tawana Brawley scandal by supporting false charges of rape against white police officers, and he's an integral part of the MSNBC commentariat.  Not only has no apology been made by either of these folks; no apology is demanded by any of those who are now jumping on Trump.

So, yes, Trump's attack on Mrs. Dingell was hurtful, and deliberately so.  It was an unambiguously crappy thing to do, and something he has no excuse for.  But equally crappy behavior has not been cause for the bulk of Democrats here to not de-legitimize Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.  (And to say "equally crappy" on the part of Sharpton is charitable; his behavior caused two (2) people to have to defend themselves against Sharpton's false charges.)

Democrats have "gone low" on Trump, but cheered on Eric Holder when he said, "When they go low, we kick them."  This is what that looks like.  Trump ought to dial that back, simply because it's the right thing to do.  He should apologize, simply because it's the right thing to do.  But that standard has not been the one Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton (particularly Sharpton) have been held to by those so bent out of shape here.  (Including Badger, but he's put me on ignore, so he'll not find out about this, and won't be able to respond to it.)

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

It was a wrong statement by Trump, and there is no defense for it.  It's one of the worst statements in politics I've ever heard.

The "whataboutism" that people complain about, however, is legitimate.  Jesse Jackson has never refuted his comments about New York being "H----town" in 1984, and Democrats running for President still make their way to his Rainbow PUSH Coalition events to seek his approval, and I don't see anyone here apologizing on behalf of the Democratic Party for the fact that its candidates still make their way to an open anti-Semite.  To this day, Al Sharpton refused to admit he perpetrated a hoax in the Tawana Brawley scandal by supporting false charges of rape against white police officers, and he's an integral part of the MSNBC commentariat.  Not only has no apology been made by either of these folks; no apology is demanded by any of those who are now jumping on Trump.

So, yes, Trump's attack on Mrs. Dingell was hurtful, and deliberately so.  It was an unambiguously crappy thing to do, and something he has no excuse for.  But equally crappy behavior has not been cause for the bulk of Democrats here to not de-legitimize Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.  (And to say "equally crappy" on the part of Sharpton is charitable; his behavior caused two (2) people to have to defend themselves against Sharpton's false charges.)

Democrats have "gone low" on Trump, but cheered on Eric Holder when he said, "When they go low, we kick them."  This is what that looks like.  Trump ought to dial that back, simply because it's the right thing to do.  He should apologize, simply because it's the right thing to do.  But that standard has not been the one Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton (particularly Sharpton) have been held to by those so bent out of shape here.  (Including Badger, but he's put me on ignore, so he'll not find out about this, and won't be able to respond to it.)

Hey Fuzzy don’t think anyone told you this but a key problem in your example is....JESSE JACKSON NEVER BECAME PRESIDENT! (Also fwi he did apologize so do sone simple research next time https://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/27/us/jackson-admits-saying-hymie-and-apologizes-at-a-synagogue.html) Do you not see the glaring issue in whatabouting something the president said with something a person who only got 21% of the primary vote 30+ years ago said when making the argument both sides are bad?

So condemn Jesse Jackson for his antisemitic comments, and his associations with Louis Farrakhan.  Jackson's still a relevant power broker in the here and now in the Democratic Party, and the same can be said for Sharpton.  Do it now; step up to the pump and condemn Jackson's statements.

There's a reason why you can't. 

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

It was a wrong statement by Trump, and there is no defense for it.  It's one of the worst statements in politics I've ever heard.

The "whataboutism" that people complain about, however, is legitimate.  Jesse Jackson has never refuted his comments about New York being "H----town" in 1984, and Democrats running for President still make their way to his Rainbow PUSH Coalition events to seek his approval, and I don't see anyone here apologizing on behalf of the Democratic Party for the fact that its candidates still make their way to an open anti-Semite.  To this day, Al Sharpton refused to admit he perpetrated a hoax in the Tawana Brawley scandal by supporting false charges of rape against white police officers, and he's an integral part of the MSNBC commentariat.  Not only has no apology been made by either of these folks; no apology is demanded by any of those who are now jumping on Trump.

So, yes, Trump's attack on Mrs. Dingell was hurtful, and deliberately so.  It was an unambiguously crappy thing to do, and something he has no excuse for.  But equally crappy behavior has not been cause for the bulk of Democrats here to not de-legitimize Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.  (And to say "equally crappy" on the part of Sharpton is charitable; his behavior caused two (2) people to have to defend themselves against Sharpton's false charges.)

Democrats have "gone low" on Trump, but cheered on Eric Holder when he said, "When they go low, we kick them."  This is what that looks like.  Trump ought to dial that back, simply because it's the right thing to do.  He should apologize, simply because it's the right thing to do.  But that standard has not been the one Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton (particularly Sharpton) have been held to by those so bent out of shape here.  (Including Badger, but he's put me on ignore, so he'll not find out about this, and won't be able to respond to it.)

Hey Fuzzy don’t think anyone told you this but a key problem in your example is....JESSE JACKSON NEVER BECAME PRESIDENT! (Also fwi he did apologize so do sone simple research next time https://www.nytimes.com/1984/02/27/us/jackson-admits-saying-hymie-and-apologizes-at-a-synagogue.html) Do you not see the glaring issue in whatabouting something the president said with something a person who only got 21% of the primary vote 30+ years ago said when making the argument both sides are bad?

So condemn Jesse Jackson for his antisemitic comments, and his associations with Louis Farrakhan.  Jackson's still a relevant power broker in the here and now in the Democratic Party, and the same can be said for Sharpton.  Do it now; step up to the pump and condemn Jackson's statements.

There's a reason why you can't. 

Yeah because I’m too busy condemning the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem

It's about time you put your time to good use, lol.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

It's about time you put your time to good use, lol.

You should follow his example.

I've already condemned the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

And I've already compiled a posting record on Atlas that consists of more than just one-line ad hominem attacks.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Even only having to read his idiotically whataboutism post citing politicians from the seventies and eighties as somehow relevant, having put fuzzy on ignore the other day has just improved my reading time on Atlas immensely. I strongly recommend it.

He misses me already.  It's as if he's bouncing between emotional cutoff and enmeshment.

Without me, Badger wouldn't have a life, lol!

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

It should be such a simple thing to condemn Jesse Jackson's 1984 remarks as bigoted.  It should also be a simple thing to condemn Presidential candidates to curry favor with Jackson in 2020.

It was a crappy thing for Trump to say.  It's being condemned here for a number of people who are fine with the past statements of Sharpton, Tlaib, Jackson, and Omar. 

People here aren't really upset, and people here don't really have empathy for Debbie Dingell (who deserves some here).  They are only interested in narrative driving points.  I have watched a number of Presidential candidates gather at the behest of Sharpton and Jackson (on separate occasion) seeking to curry favor and support from these men.  Why should it be OK for Democratic Presidential candidates to openly curry favor with a many who referred to NYC as "H----town" and another who staged a phony rape allegation against two (2) police officers and has never taken responsibility for it?

This is pearl clutching at its utmost.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

It should be such a simple thing to condemn Jesse Jackson's 1984 remarks as bigoted.  It should also be a simple thing to condemn Presidential candidates to curry favor with Jackson in 2020.

It was a crappy thing for Trump to say.  It's being condemned here for a number of people who are fine with the past statements of Sharpton, Tlaib, Jackson, and Omar. 

People here aren't really upset, and people here don't really have empathy for Debbie Dingell (who deserves some here).  They are only interested in narrative driving points.  I have watched a number of Presidential candidates gather at the behest of Sharpton and Jackson (on separate occasion) seeking to curry favor and support from these men.  Why should it be OK for Democratic Presidential candidates to openly curry favor with a many who referred to NYC as "H----town" and another who staged a phony rape allegation against two (2) police officers and has never taken responsibility for it?

This is pearl clutching at its utmost.

First off you dodge the fact that Jesse actually apologized for the comments so a big point to your original argument has been undercut. Second the problem with your whole premise much like the infamous Grand Mufti argument you made is you keep hosting these obscure figures to use as a whataboutism for Trump. Granted Jesse and Al aren’t “obscure” per say but they sure as shoot aren’t as important, influencal, or powerful as the president and you constant referral to them shows how little self awareness you have on this issue.

So do you condemn Amin Al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who collaborated with Hitler?  Or should he be regarded positively as a Founding Father of the postwar strain of Arab Nationalism?

Which position on the Grand Mufti do you take?  You are always demanding moral clarity of me, so this shouldn't be tough?

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

People here aren't really upset, and people here don't really have empathy for Debbie Dingell (who deserves some here). 

Oh I can assure you I am upset. I was seething when I heard this. My reaction to it is captured here:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=340622.msg7096658#msg7096658

https://mobile.twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1207482596894089216
Screw this asshole

WTF??? 😠😠

I do wonder why Trump can't avoid this sort of thing.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

People here aren't really upset, and people here don't really have empathy for Debbie Dingell (who deserves some here). 

Oh I can assure you I am upset. I was seething when I heard this. My reaction to it is captured here:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=340622.msg7096658#msg7096658

https://mobile.twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1207482596894089216
Screw this asshole

WTF??? 😠😠

I do wonder why Trump can't avoid this sort of thing.

He probably thinks that it's weak to hold his tongue and alpha to say whatever he feels like saying. Not sure that I would agree with that, but I think he believes that.

That's as good an explanation as I can think of.

I don't think Trump intends to be as mean as people think he is, but I certainly agree that he doesn't have much of a filter.