Nobody in Pittsburgh wants Trump to come

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Jewish people have been the targets of hatred, based usually on envy, for longer than I've been alive.  It's be a feature of the diaspora for centuries.  In Russia.  In Eastern Europe.  In the Middle East.  In France.  And in Germany, which, before Hitler came to power, was considered one of the more liberal and tolerant destinations for Jews.

My oldest and best friends in New York, where I grew up. were mostly Jewish.  They have all heard the ugliness of anti-Semetism in all sorts of forms.  The sources of resentment was usually resentment toward their wealth; what was never mentioned by the haters was the extreme sacrifices Jewish immigrants made for their children to have better lives.  They made wise choices, they valued education.  I know some of the older Jewish immigrants (now long passed, I'm sure) and the extreme sacrifices they made so their children could go to college and beyond.  THIS was the source of most of the envy and resentment toward Jews that I saw.  I know many Jews personally that are well off, economically, and every one of my personal acquaintances and friends have in their ancestry someone who came with nothing, sacrificed for their future generations, and, if they were fortunate, lived long enough to see and enjoy some of that pay off.

I have not spoken to any of my older friends today.  They all live up north.  I cannot imagine that Donald Trump is on THEIR minds.  Anti-Semetism, yes; Donald Trump, no.  And I doubt any of them voted for Trump either.  Period.

Are people not better than to whip up blaming Trump for THIS on the eve of midterms?  If he were really at fault for this, that would be one thing, but he's not, yet people push this particular card aggressively.  If the people of Squirrel Hill are saying this, I'll listen.  If it's overly-policiticized Red Atlas Avatars, well, meybe it's time for a sabbatical from politics.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Jewish people have been the targets of hatred, based usually on envy, for longer than I've been alive.  It's be a feature of the diaspora for centuries.  In Russia.  In Eastern Europe.  In the Middle East.  In France.  And in Germany, which, before Hitler came to power, was considered one of the more liberal and tolerant destinations for Jews.

My oldest and best friends in New York, where I grew up. were mostly Jewish.  They have all heard the ugliness of anti-Semetism in all sorts of forms.  The sources of resentment was usually resentment toward their wealth; what was never mentioned by the haters was the extreme sacrifices Jewish immigrants made for their children to have better lives.  They made wise choices, they valued education.  I know some of the older Jewish immigrants (now long passed, I'm sure) and the extreme sacrifices they made so their children could go to college and beyond.  THIS was the source of most of the envy and resentment toward Jews that I saw.  I know many Jews personally that are well off, economically, and every one of my personal acquaintances and friends have in their ancestry someone who came with nothing, sacrificed for their future generations, and, if they were fortunate, lived long enough to see and enjoy some of that pay off.

I have not spoken to any of my older friends today.  They all live up north.  I cannot imagine that Donald Trump is on THEIR minds.  Anti-Semetism, yes; Donald Trump, no.  And I doubt any of them voted for Trump either.  Period.

Are people not better than to whip up blaming Trump for THIS on the eve of midterms?  If he were really at fault for this, that would be one thing, but he's not, yet people push this particular card aggressively.  If the people of Squirrel Hill are saying this, I'll listen.  If it's overly-policiticized Red Atlas Avatars, well, meybe it's time for a sabbatical from politics.

It's not so much that Trump did it but rather that he's enabled for a culture like this to prevail in the American mainstream.

These issues are not new; they have been going on long before I was born, and I'm alder than most of Atlas.

Antisemitism has it's roots in envy.  Jews are envied and resented by the far left as well as the far right; let's be real here.  

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Jewish people have been the targets of hatred, based usually on envy, for longer than I've been alive.  It's be a feature of the diaspora for centuries.  In Russia.  In Eastern Europe.  In the Middle East.  In France.  And in Germany, which, before Hitler came to power, was considered one of the more liberal and tolerant destinations for Jews.

My oldest and best friends in New York, where I grew up. were mostly Jewish.  They have all heard the ugliness of anti-Semetism in all sorts of forms.  The sources of resentment was usually resentment toward their wealth; what was never mentioned by the haters was the extreme sacrifices Jewish immigrants made for their children to have better lives.  They made wise choices, they valued education.  I know some of the older Jewish immigrants (now long passed, I'm sure) and the extreme sacrifices they made so their children could go to college and beyond.  THIS was the source of most of the envy and resentment toward Jews that I saw.  I know many Jews personally that are well off, economically, and every one of my personal acquaintances and friends have in their ancestry someone who came with nothing, sacrificed for their future generations, and, if they were fortunate, lived long enough to see and enjoy some of that pay off.

I have not spoken to any of my older friends today.  They all live up north.  I cannot imagine that Donald Trump is on THEIR minds.  Anti-Semetism, yes; Donald Trump, no.  And I doubt any of them voted for Trump either.  Period.

Are people not better than to whip up blaming Trump for THIS on the eve of midterms?  If he were really at fault for this, that would be one thing, but he's not, yet people push this particular card aggressively.  If the people of Squirrel Hill are saying this, I'll listen.  If it's overly-policiticized Red Atlas Avatars, well, meybe it's time for a sabbatical from politics.

Great. Not only do we get to hear more long-winded, personal "sad" stories from Fuzzy, but apparently he is now a mind-reader to exactly how his "older friends" feel and think.
If he opens-up a psychic-reading small business out of his home, he could be a millionaire.

Let's say, for a minute, that Donald Trump went on TV and made a statement that kind of statement that everyone wants here.  A statement that not only condemns antisemitism, but an apology for seeming to equivocate on the alt-right in the past, coupled with the sort of condemnation of such groups that met Atlas standards.  Let's say this happened.  What would the Atlas Left response be?

Would there be a gracious acknowledgement of such a statement from the likes of ProudModerate2, Invisible Obama, Yank, Solid, Doctor Imperialism, frodo, harry, and a slew of others who post in their vein here?  Would these folks post gratitude for Trump "coming to his senses" and emphasize areas agreement?  Or would they respond by heaping the vitriol on Trump, calling him a hypocrite, suggesting he is being insincere, or just blathering on as of he never made that statement?  As those individuals have NEVER on this forum manifested graciousness toward people who disagree with them, why wouldn't a statement meant to heal issued by Trump be met with ungracious replies from the ungracious.  Just imagine the rants against "The Orange Clown" that would come forth from this ungracious cacophony of keyboards, all ranting in unison, in response to a statement that was meant for healing and RIGHTEOUS indignation (as opposed to the faux, politically-motivated indignance practiced to an art form around here).

And the real world outside Atlas is full of such people.  People who won't agree with Trump when he's right or when he's doing the right thing.  I don't believe I'm wrong in my assessment of those folks, and there are millions of them in America poised and ready to criticize any sort of statement urging healing by our President.  Calthrina950 has more decency on his worst day than any of those others have on their best.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The most surprising event of all this was learning that Fuzzy was a White-Flighter, I legit thought he was a north Florida Native

I'm a native Long Islander.  And while I'd like to live in North Florida, that's not been my station to date. 

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Jewish people have been the targets of hatred, based usually on envy, for longer than I've been alive.  It's be a feature of the diaspora for centuries.  In Russia.  In Eastern Europe.  In the Middle East.  In France.  And in Germany, which, before Hitler came to power, was considered one of the more liberal and tolerant destinations for Jews.

My oldest and best friends in New York, where I grew up. were mostly Jewish.  They have all heard the ugliness of anti-Semetism in all sorts of forms.  The sources of resentment was usually resentment toward their wealth; what was never mentioned by the haters was the extreme sacrifices Jewish immigrants made for their children to have better lives.  They made wise choices, they valued education.  I know some of the older Jewish immigrants (now long passed, I'm sure) and the extreme sacrifices they made so their children could go to college and beyond.  THIS was the source of most of the envy and resentment toward Jews that I saw.  I know many Jews personally that are well off, economically, and every one of my personal acquaintances and friends have in their ancestry someone who came with nothing, sacrificed for their future generations, and, if they were fortunate, lived long enough to see and enjoy some of that pay off.

I have not spoken to any of my older friends today.  They all live up north.  I cannot imagine that Donald Trump is on THEIR minds.  Anti-Semetism, yes; Donald Trump, no.  And I doubt any of them voted for Trump either.  Period.

Are people not better than to whip up blaming Trump for THIS on the eve of midterms?  If he were really at fault for this, that would be one thing, but he's not, yet people push this particular card aggressively.  If the people of Squirrel Hill are saying this, I'll listen.  If it's overly-policiticized Red Atlas Avatars, well, meybe it's time for a sabbatical from politics.

Great. Not only do we get to hear more long-winded, personal "sad" stories from Fuzzy, but apparently he is now a mind-reader to exactly how his "older friends" feel and think.
If he opens-up a psychic-reading small business out of his home, he could be a millionaire.

Let's say, for a minute, that Donald Trump went on TV and made a statement that kind of statement that everyone wants here.  A statement that not only condemns antisemitism, but an apology for seeming to equivocate on the alt-right in the past, coupled with the sort of condemnation of such groups that met Atlas standards.  Let's say this happened.  What would the Atlas Left response be?

Would there be a gracious acknowledgement of such a statement from the likes of ProudModerate2, Invisible Obama, Yank, Solid, Doctor Imperialism, frodo, harry, and a slew of others who post in their vein here?  Would these folks post gratitude for Trump "coming to his senses" and emphasize areas agreement?  Or would they respond by heaping the vitriol on Trump, calling him a hypocrite, suggesting he is being insincere, or just blathering on as of he never made that statement?  As those individuals have NEVER on this forum manifested graciousness toward people who disagree with them, why wouldn't a statement meant to heal issued by Trump be met with ungracious replies from the ungracious.  Just imagine the rants against "The Orange Clown" that would come forth from this ungracious cacophony of keyboards, all ranting in unison, in response to a statement that was meant for healing and RIGHTEOUS indignation (as opposed to the faux, politically-motivated indignance practiced to an art form around here).

And the real world outside Atlas is full of such people.  People who won't agree with Trump when he's right or when he's doing the right thing.  I don't believe I'm wrong in my assessment of those folks, and there are millions of them in America poised and ready to criticize any sort of statement urging healing by our President.  Calthrina950 has more decency on his worst day than any of those others have on their best.

We'll wait for the inevitable tweet that will be a complete contradiction of what he said earlier.

This was going to be my exact response, also.
trump constantly talks words of "condemnation" or "unity of the nation" (statements that he, himself does not write, by the way) but then by the next day or even just a few minutes later, he is back to his BS hatred-filled responses-of-attack on certain opponents, the media, immigrants, etc.

We should ANYONE believe in anything he says? It's been the same thing over and over and over again for 2 years now.
His WH writers have trump read the TelePrompter like a robot and later we get to hear trump's true thoughts on the matter (which are never good or "healing" to anyone).
Is there anyone out there that is so inept and delusional, to not see this?

So Trump could be RIGHT, and you wouldn't support him, because you "can't believe him"?

That's an amazing statement.  What kind of nation are we if you are representative of half of it?  I grant you that we could say this about right-wing posters during the Obama years, but if Americans won't respond positively to a President when they know that President to be correct, I question their fidelity to America, itself.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Jewish people have been the targets of hatred, based usually on envy, for longer than I've been alive.  It's be a feature of the diaspora for centuries.  In Russia.  In Eastern Europe.  In the Middle East.  In France.  And in Germany, which, before Hitler came to power, was considered one of the more liberal and tolerant destinations for Jews.

My oldest and best friends in New York, where I grew up. were mostly Jewish.  They have all heard the ugliness of anti-Semetism in all sorts of forms.  The sources of resentment was usually resentment toward their wealth; what was never mentioned by the haters was the extreme sacrifices Jewish immigrants made for their children to have better lives.  They made wise choices, they valued education.  I know some of the older Jewish immigrants (now long passed, I'm sure) and the extreme sacrifices they made so their children could go to college and beyond.  THIS was the source of most of the envy and resentment toward Jews that I saw.  I know many Jews personally that are well off, economically, and every one of my personal acquaintances and friends have in their ancestry someone who came with nothing, sacrificed for their future generations, and, if they were fortunate, lived long enough to see and enjoy some of that pay off.

I have not spoken to any of my older friends today.  They all live up north.  I cannot imagine that Donald Trump is on THEIR minds.  Anti-Semetism, yes; Donald Trump, no.  And I doubt any of them voted for Trump either.  Period.

Are people not better than to whip up blaming Trump for THIS on the eve of midterms?  If he were really at fault for this, that would be one thing, but he's not, yet people push this particular card aggressively.  If the people of Squirrel Hill are saying this, I'll listen.  If it's overly-policiticized Red Atlas Avatars, well, meybe it's time for a sabbatical from politics.

Great. Not only do we get to hear more long-winded, personal "sad" stories from Fuzzy, but apparently he is now a mind-reader to exactly how his "older friends" feel and think.
If he opens-up a psychic-reading small business out of his home, he could be a millionaire.

Let's say, for a minute, that Donald Trump went on TV and made a statement that kind of statement that everyone wants here.  A statement that not only condemns antisemitism, but an apology for seeming to equivocate on the alt-right in the past, coupled with the sort of condemnation of such groups that met Atlas standards.  Let's say this happened.  What would the Atlas Left response be?

Would there be a gracious acknowledgement of such a statement from the likes of ProudModerate2, Invisible Obama, Yank, Solid, Doctor Imperialism, frodo, harry, and a slew of others who post in their vein here?  Would these folks post gratitude for Trump "coming to his senses" and emphasize areas agreement?  Or would they respond by heaping the vitriol on Trump, calling him a hypocrite, suggesting he is being insincere, or just blathering on as of he never made that statement?  As those individuals have NEVER on this forum manifested graciousness toward people who disagree with them, why wouldn't a statement meant to heal issued by Trump be met with ungracious replies from the ungracious.  Just imagine the rants against "The Orange Clown" that would come forth from this ungracious cacophony of keyboards, all ranting in unison, in response to a statement that was meant for healing and RIGHTEOUS indignation (as opposed to the faux, politically-motivated indignance practiced to an art form around here).

And the real world outside Atlas is full of such people.  People who won't agree with Trump when he's right or when he's doing the right thing.  I don't believe I'm wrong in my assessment of those folks, and there are millions of them in America poised and ready to criticize any sort of statement urging healing by our President.  Calthrina950 has more decency on his worst day than any of those others have on their best.

We'll wait for the inevitable tweet that will be a complete contradiction of what he said earlier.

This was going to be my exact response, also.
trump constantly talks words of "condemnation" or "unity of the nation" (statements that he, himself does not write, by the way) but then by the next day or even just a few minutes later, he is back to his BS hatred-filled responses-of-attack on certain opponents, the media, immigrants, etc.

We should ANYONE believe in anything he says? It's been the same thing over and over and over again for 2 years now.
His WH writers have trump read the TelePrompter like a robot and later we get to hear trump's true thoughts on the matter (which are never good or "healing" to anyone).
Is there anyone out there that is so inept and delusional, to not see this?

So Trump could be RIGHT, and you wouldn't support him, because you "can't believe him"?

That's an amazing statement.  What kind of nation are we if you are representative of half of it?  I grant you that we could say this about right-wing posters during the Obama years, but if Americans won't respond positively to a President when they know that President to be correct, I question their fidelity to America, itself.

Fuzzy.
The question is which statement are we to believe (and judge) from the Orange Tangerine.
The point is being made that he has various, contradicting statements.
trump initially, kind-of condemned the Chancellorsville event (where he "was RIGHT)", but then latter praised the alt-right Jew-hating protesters of the same event.
You cant expect people to praise him for being "right" on one aspect of the event, and then to ignore when he said something extremely deplorable later.

(This is just an example ...) If your mom passed-away and I told you that I am sincerely sorry for her passing, but then the next day I told you that you mom was a wh**e, would you (or anyone) praise me for being "right" about the entire experience of her death? And then multiple this by trump doing this over and over and over again. You come to a point where you give-up on said individual for their level of morality/ethics/honesty.

All of this still comes down to a declaration that you won't follow the leadership of President Trump even in an instance where what he says is right and in which you know him to be right.

It really does come down to that.

A tragedy has happened in a predominantly Jewish Community in Pittsburgh and the focus of the vast majority here is how to make Trump appear to be responsible for it.  That's where this Forum is at right now.  

[Fuzzy Bear]

^^That literally is what has happened. Trump&co. vilified the caravan, along with not acting against attacks on Jews, led to the shooter being emboldened to strike.

Your literally behaving like Calthrina in that you ignore any portions that dispute your worldview and parrot a mantra over and over again. You even provide a detailed story, always ending by saying that the libs are stupid and wrong or some other variation. Then you complain that we are all divisive and mean. Just come out that you will put the murder aside only if it advances the country to your liking.

I’m serious, just admit yourself. It’s not like we don’t already know this about you. That you make the stories to hide your agenda like the Pharisees did against Christ.

The murder here is not Trump's fault, period.

I have little interest in the politics of all of this.  I've cast my vote, and it's probably not what you think it is.  What I do care about is America being willing to respond to a President in time of national tragedy or national need.  That is the characteristic of a functional nation.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The president has partial blame for these murders, due to his rhetoric words of continued hate. Period.

Horsecrap!

Exclamation point!

[Fuzzy Bear]

The whole of the whining of "Trump's Rhetoric" in this thread, as far as I'm concerned, is an attempt for people to try to get political advantage from an atrocity without getting caught at it.  Now this is a site for political junkies, so I'm not going to give my best ProudModerate2 "DISGUSTING!" on it, but let's get real here.  Folks here are hoping for a boost to Democrats on the midterms as a result of this, but they don't want to get caught "politicizing a tragedy".  Yet that's what folks are doing here. 

Trump's rhetoric is what it is.  Was it Trump who said, "When they go low, we kick them!"?  (No, that was Eric Holder, a former Attorney General.)  Was it Trump who said, "You cannot be civil to Republicans!"?  (No, that was Hillary Clinton, the most recent Democratic Presidential nominee.)  Was it Trump that described one-quarter of the electorate as "Deplorable"?  No, that was Hillary Clinton as well.

I was alive during the Civil Rights Movement.  I'll grant you that Trump's comments were confusing, and he should have stuck to his first statement and left it at that (calling for a return to Law and Order), but it has never been comparable to the rhetoric of those opposed to Civil Rights demonstrators.  Those were unqualified denouncements of the demonstrators.  Those referred to the demonstrators as Communists, and Communist-inspired; there were not "good people on either side".  Why did Trump make such a statement?  Perhaps, it was to encourage the restoration of order.  Such statements did not occur during the Civil Rights Movement, because THOSE politicians were truly OK with what Mike Royko described as "the worst elements of Southern beer-belly manhood (being) allowed to provide the response". 

It's too much, I suppose, to ask for perspective on this aspect of the matter.  After all, if Attorney Generals and Presidential candidates can't do better, why should I expect more from the bulk of Atlas?  I suppose I ought to develop reasonable expectations.

[Fuzzy Bear]

... Are people not better than to whip up blaming Trump for THIS on the eve of midterms?  If he were really at fault for this, that would be one thing, but he's not, yet people push this particular card aggressively.  If the people of Squirrel Hill are saying this, I'll listen.  If it's overly-policiticized Red Atlas Avatars, well, meybe it's time for a sabbatical from politics.

Well here you go Fuzzy.
"The people of Squirrel Hill are saying" exactly what we have been saying.
Clear your ears of wax and "listen" ...

Former president of the Tree of Life Synagogue Lynette Lederman says President Trump is a "purveyor of hate speech" and is not welcome in Pittsburgh in the wake of a shooting that killed 11.

Watch video here: https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/10/29/lynette-lederman-trump-not-welcome-pittsburgh-intv-newday-sot-vpx.cnn

This is one speaker, although I'll respect her opinion.  Not yours, of course.

Respectfully, it's not her place to say Donald Trump is not welcome in Pittsburgh.  He's the President, and he OUGHT to be in Pittsburgh.  There is a problem with Americans when they declare that their President is not welcome in their town.  And I remember people being taken aback when people said similar things about Obama, and rightly so.

[Fuzzy Bear]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/10/30/the_pittsburgh_synagogue_anti-semitism_and_trump_138499.html

Mr. Prager says it better than I ever could.

[Fuzzy Bear]

^^^^ Read it and weep, FuzzyBear and JJ.

I'll respect their opinions, even while I disagree with them.

He's still the President.  He has every right to go there.  He, arguably, has a duty to come there.  And while I have no respect for any of your opinions, I respectfully disagree with the Rabbi.

[Fuzzy Bear]

^^^^ Read it and weep, FuzzyBear and JJ.

I'll respect their opinions, even while I disagree with them.

He's still the President.  He has every right to go there.  He, arguably, has a duty to come there.  And while I have no respect for any of your opinions, I respectfully disagree with the Rabbi.

He has a duty to stop being a hateful, lying, covetous SOF (Son of Fred).

The accusations here is that Trump is some kind of anti-Jewish figure, which is ridiculous.

If the widow of a police officer killed in the line of duty didn't want Obama coming to their city at the time of the officer's funeral, stating that he was a chronic apologist for criminals, should he stay away from that city?  If the city was, say, Tulsa, Oklahoma, should he stay home?

Trump's presence in Pittsburgh had the potential to be legitimately healing.  To be sure, his combative statements have limited his ability to be a "healer".  But dumping the anti-Semite label and blaming him for this is, I believe, unjust.  And I also believe that if he DIDN'T go to Pittsburgh, he'd be getting the same flak from the same folks, only with different talking points.

[Fuzzy Bear]

^^^^ Read it and weep, FuzzyBear and JJ.

I'll respect their opinions, even while I disagree with them.

He's still the President.  He has every right to go there.  He, arguably, has a duty to come there.  And while I have no respect for any of your opinions, I respectfully disagree with the Rabbi.

Nice mental deflection there, Fuzzy.
The Rabbi's words to trump and Melania were not about "should he be/come there or not."
He told the Orange Clown that his hateful rhetoric led to the massacre at his synagogue: "hate speech leads to hateful actions. Hate speech leads to what happened in my sanctuary."

He's not wrong on his point, but Trump has said nothing to incite violence against Jews.  Indeed, he's not sought to incite violence, period.

Others deliberately incited violence at Trump's rallies.  This is a fact, and it is beyond dispute.  Apologists for that make up some of the tut-tutters today.