NFL bans kneeling during the national anthem

[Fuzzy Bear]

they need to stand.

No they don't. This is not the DPRK.

You would not take seriously the opinions of someone who had no regard for the Civil Rights Movement.  Who had no regard for Martin Luther King or John Lewis, or Malcolm X or Stokely Carmichael.  Who would not, say, observe a moment of silence for MLK on his birthday if a sporting event were being held because they didn't think him worthy of that.  

Let's say the NFL had some players who, during a playoff game, wouldn't stand for that particular moment of silence.  Would that be THEIR free speech rights?  Or would you be pleased when the NFL disciplined such players for their divisive gesture?

For the record, I think that the NFL would be well within their rights to discipline such players, who were not only offensive to fans, but were the source of locker room tension with their "MLK Sucks!" gesture.

So perhaps you could consider how offensive it is for millions of Americans to see NFL players saying, in effect, "America Sucks!" by their gesture.  Especially when some of those players are little more than apologists for folks committing crimes.  And before you criticize that statement, consider if whether or not you would consider the other (admittedly hypothetical) example to be a case of folks who were little more than apologists for Bull Connor, Robert Shelton and Sheriff Jim Clark et al.

As for "free speech", this is a nation where Lebron James, a mere high school graduate, with no particular credentials for his opinions to be taken any more seriously than, say, yours or mine, is constantly asked where he weighs in on criminal justice issues.  Why?  Because he's a CELEBRITY.  Celebrities not only enjoy the free speech we do, they enjoy access to widespread distribution of their opinions through the mass media.  The next reporter that sticks a mic in my face and asks if I prefer toilet paper over or under will be the first.  These guys have all the access to media a person could want; how are their "free speech" rights being denied?

You would conclude that an NFL player who refused to observe a moment of silence for MLK on his birthday would be a racist.  That's you're right, and it would be a good guess.  So why would I be wrong in concluding that the "kneelers" in the NFL simply hate America?  There is a difference in believing your country to be wrong on an important matter and wishing to set it right and thinking your country just plain sucks.  Someone in the former category would probably NOT kneel, but would speak out in proper venues.  I don't think I'm wrong, however, in stating that a decent percentage of the Kneelers simply hate America and their gesture is just showing their posterior for America to see.

I would point out that in the mid-1960s, when you weren't even an idea and when the real RFK walked the Earth, the American Flag was a symbol of the Civil Rights movement.  



While I don't think much of BLM overall, they do raise some legitimate issues of racism in criminal justice that deserve discussion and remedy.  Their issues, however, are with police, that are primarily local agencies.  The American flag represents the whole of America, and the anthem is, in the context of the NFL, a tribute to our military.  In that respect, I think that the SINCERE kneelers (as opposed to the Kneelers that truly loathe America) are taking out their frustrations against the wrong folks.  There are millions of NFL fans of all races who have family as active military, and millions more who are veterans; should their sentiments be blown off?  I'm not one who normally chooses to patronize or not patronize an enterprise based on their political beliefs, but I would find it hard to reward an enterprise that actively provides a forum for folks to display their loathing of America.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Kaepernick is PROBABLY good enough to have a backup QB job in the NFL.  He could possibly start for some of the weaker teams.  I don't know how good he is now, and I have long suspected that he was/is hiding an injury of some kind because he lost his starting gig BEFORE the kneeling stuff.

The reason Kaepernick doesn't have a job right now is that most teams don't want a celebrity as their backup QB, and they don't want a celebrity as a STARTING QB who is going to ignite a QB controversy.  In that respect, Kaepernick is like Tim Tebow; a guy who was a CELEBRITY who had been a STAR who was in a position of having the starting job while his viability as a NFL QB was being questioned. You then have a guy who''s not your best player getting the bulk of the media attention.  That rarely ends well.  The fan controversy with Kaepernick is the cherry on the top of the whipped cream.

The other reason is that Kaepernick, having been a star,  if signed,  would have to deal with the issue of not being a star, but being just another player.  That's hard to do when you generate the media buzz Kaepernick has; he's a celebrity in his own right now, and not just a sports celebrity.  When a guy like this is your BACKUP QB, or a marginal starter, it means that your backup QB has had to swallow a lot of ego.  Not everyone can do it.  Tebow couldn't do it; he was unwulling to be a back up QB once he tasted the starter's job.  I cannot imgine Kaepernick being happy as a backup.  I CAN imagine Kaepernick no longer being good enough to start.

[Fuzzy Bear]

My position on this issue is complex. It has been generally acknowledged that private companies (which the NFL is) have the right to regulate the conduct of their employees while they are on the job. Thus, by the legal definition, it is the right of the NFL to regulate what their players and their personnel can and cannot do when they are out on the field. The recent regulations barring them from kneeling would fall within this framework. At the same time, however, people do have the right to freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of assembly, and many over our history have utilized these rights to protest against injustice or to push for social change.

The actions taken by Kaepernick and by the other NFL players aren't completely unprecedented; you are definitely aware of what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did at the Mexico City Olympics back in 1968. They did so in protest at the injustices and the discrimination that were (and are) prevalent in the United States at that time. I think that the NFL players have been clearly motivated by a desire to use their public platform to protest for a legitimate cause-that of police brutality. Yes, many of the incidents which they have been protesting involved people who were legitimately violating the law, and were dealt with in the appropriate manner. But many of them also involved people who were treated in a horrendous manner by law enforcement, in ways that clearly violate the precepts of the law and of this country.

Thus, I think that the NFL players shouldn't be barred from speaking out against such injustices. I agree with you that a NFL game may not be the best venue in which to do it; they do have access to other means of communication (i.e. interviews, rallies, television programs, advertisements), that many average people usually don't have access to. But at the same time, I think that attacking NFL players for being "anti-American", or attacking NFL fans for being "racist" is unproductive. There are many NFL fans who support what the players have done, and there are players who haven't participated in the kneeling. A deeper understanding of this situation by both sides would, in my opinion, do much to bring us to a point where we could begin actively addressing the issues involved.

I will grant that Tommie Smith and John Carlos did not have access to the platforms from which to speak out that athletes of all races, but ESPECIALLY black athletes, have access to today.  Having been alive at that time, I remember being peeved at those guys getting grief, and I was even more upset when I found out that the guy who sent them packing from Mexico City was Avery Brundage, the head of the IOC, and a world class racist jackass who blocked a posed boycott of the 1936 Berlin Olympics (granted that they were awarded to Germany prior to Hitler) and let the 1972 Munich Games go on after the massacre of the Israeli athletes there.  Brundage's comment about the Smith-Carlos incident was "Warped mentalities and cracked personalities seem to be everywhere and impossible to eliminate."  (In objecting to the iconic photograph's inclusion into the official IOC's report of the incident, Brundage described the incident as "the nasty demonstration against the American flag by negroes".  Brundage was, in all likelihood, the most racist and reactionary head of a sports organization in my lifetime, excluding POSSIBLY baseball owner Marge Schott and Washington Redskins founder George Preston Marshall.

There was also an aspect of "seizing the moment" with Smith and Carlos that doesn't apply to the current Kneelers.  These guys were track stars, this was the only time they'd be in that kind of spotlight.  (Smith and Carlos both were later on NFL rosters, but despite their speed, they really couldn't play NFL football because they couldn't run pass patterns well and couldn't catch the ball that well; the Olympics were their BIG moment.)  They weren't going to be invited on the talk show circuit, except, perhaps, for an interview with someone like Howard Cosell.  (Indeed, many black athletes had boycotted the 1968 Olympics, including Lew Alcindor nka Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.) 

In revisiting the past, I confess that I find myself softened a bit to the Kneelers' line of thinking.  Somewhat.  The issues Smith and Carlos were bringing to light, however, were pretty much a one-sided matter, dealing with injustices done to law-abiding citizens.  That's not exactly the case today, and while I appreciate how the rights of the accused are intertwined with my rights, there are aspects of the narrative of today's issue that I simply don't accept.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump: "Maybe you shouldn't be in the country" if you don't stand for the flag

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Disgusting totalitarianism espoused from the President yet again.

My opinion on this issue:

There need to be actual reasons to feel national pride before symbols of pride mean anything.

I know (or knew; many are now dead) many men of the WWII generation who would wholeheartedly agree with Donald Trump on this issue, including some who never voted Republican in their lives.  These are the men that defended our country and defeated REAL facism during WWII.  Men like the REAL JFK, not posers with a red avatar.  A few I knew were Ellis Island immigrants; many were first generation American born.  To a man, they'd agree with Trump.

Their reasons for national pride was the freedom it gave them.  Their reasons for national pride was that they were citizens of a nation that took them in, made them one of their own, and was a GOOD nation as well as a GREAT nation.

You have no idea as to what either goodness or greatness is.

While I am not a big fan of having the Pledge of Allegiance or the National Anthem leading off every public meeting or sporting event I attend, others disagree with me, and I may well be in the minority in our society on this issue.  When the National Anthem is part of the venue, I stand for the flag because I love my country, and I revere its ideals, even when they're honored in the breach more than in the observance.  And there is something wrong with someone who has been given the opportunity the NFL affords its players when they can't stand for the National Anthem as far as I'm concerned.  I stand to honor both our nation and the flesh-and-blood men who fought to defend it, and especially those who fought in the most terrible war in history, WWII. 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump: "Maybe you shouldn't be in the country" if you don't stand for the flag

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Disgusting totalitarianism espoused from the President yet again.

My opinion on this issue:

There need to be actual reasons to feel national pride before symbols of pride mean anything.

I know (or knew; many are now dead) many men of the WWII generation who would wholeheartedly agree with Donald Trump on this issue, including some who never voted Republican in their lives.  These are the men that defended our country and defeated REAL facism during WWII.  Men like the REAL JFK, not posers with a red avatar.  A few I knew were Ellis Island immigrants; many were first generation American born.  To a man, they'd agree with Trump.

Their reasons for national pride was the freedom it gave them.  Their reasons for national pride was that they were citizens of a nation that took them in, made them one of their own, and was a GOOD nation as well as a GREAT nation.

You have no idea as to what either goodness or greatness is.

While I am not a big fan of having the Pledge of Allegiance or the National Anthem leading off every public meeting or sporting event I attend, others disagree with me, and I may well be in the minority in our society on this issue.  When the National Anthem is part of the venue, I stand for the flag because I love my country, and I revere its ideals, even when they're honored in the breach more than in the observance.  And there is something wrong with someone who has been given the opportunity the NFL affords its players when they can't stand for the National Anthem as far as I'm concerned.  I stand to honor both our nation and the flesh-and-blood men who fought to defend it, and especially those who fought in the most terrible war in history, WWII. 

I would say that the claims bandied about on this forum and elsewhere, that Trump is a "fascist", and that Republicans are "fascist", are way blown out of proportion. When you look at actual historic fascism, such as that displayed by the Italians under Mussolini and the Nazis under Hitler, you can find little, if any comparison, to the policies being pursued by the Trump Administration in the present day. Yes Trump has said many offensive and/or politically incorrect things (and some of that depends on who you talk to), but I don't really see anything in Republican policies that would approach anywhere near the level of something as horrendous as the Holocaust or all out state direction of national resources, nor anything that would suggest wanton military conquest and the exploitation of helpless peoples.

Trump has his antagonistic relationship with the press, but ultimately, he seems to be motivated by a desire for ratings, above all else, and less by a desire to actually destroy the press as an institution. Though Trump's motives may not be the most desirable, they cannot be compared to the actions taken by men like Goebbels, who used the press as a propaganda outlet to spread their lies and to legitimize the terror of their regime.

As for the veterans that you speak of, I can understand their position. I myself do recognize the sacrifices which have been made, by men in uniform, by men out of uniform, of all races and backgrounds, to advance the ideals which were set by our Founding Fathers. I acknowledge the symbolic importance of our nation's symbols, and the need to preserve our freedoms. But I also think that it is not necessary to give absolute adherence to the Pledge of Allegiance or National Anthem, at least not in the sense of slavishly worshiping them, and I think that one can be patriotic while calling attention to serious social issues.

I certainly agree with the highlighted concept.  But there is a difference between a person that cares about America and is sincerely concerned for its direction, and someone who deeply resents America and despises what it is.  Quite frankly, a decent number of the Kneelers I sense are in the 2nd category.

[Fuzzy Bear]

If it was white players bending the knee cuz of some conservative reason y'all ugly Trump supporters would be loving them

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm against any kneeling during the anthem regardless of the reasoning.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump: "Maybe you shouldn't be in the country" if you don't stand for the flag

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Disgusting totalitarianism espoused from the President yet again.

My opinion on this issue:

There need to be actual reasons to feel national pride before symbols of pride mean anything.

I know (or knew; many are now dead) many men of the WWII generation who would wholeheartedly agree with Donald Trump on this issue, including some who never voted Republican in their lives.  These are the men that defended our country and defeated REAL facism during WWII.  Men like the REAL JFK, not posers with a red avatar.  A few I knew were Ellis Island immigrants; many were first generation American born.  To a man, they'd agree with Trump.

Their reasons for national pride was the freedom it gave them.  Their reasons for national pride was that they were citizens of a nation that took them in, made them one of their own, and was a GOOD nation as well as a GREAT nation.

You have no idea as to what either goodness or greatness is.

While I am not a big fan of having the Pledge of Allegiance or the National Anthem leading off every public meeting or sporting event I attend, others disagree with me, and I may well be in the minority in our society on this issue.  When the National Anthem is part of the venue, I stand for the flag because I love my country, and I revere its ideals, even when they're honored in the breach more than in the observance.  And there is something wrong with someone who has been given the opportunity the NFL affords its players when they can't stand for the National Anthem as far as I'm concerned.  I stand to honor both our nation and the flesh-and-blood men who fought to defend it, and especially those who fought in the most terrible war in history, WWII. 

A few things:
1) what some dead person who I admire thinks is not the main thing influencing my positions on current issues
2) I never called Trump fascist, I called this particular statement of his totalitarian, which is different and much more accurate
3) I stand for the anthem because I love the stated ideals of this somewhat flawed country. If I didn't I'd leave, I have the means to. One of the ideals is freedom of expression and the ability to protest, and the freedom to speak out against protest you don't like, and discuss issues like police brutality that need to be addressed.
4) to assume that people who have the means to leave America hate America because they don't stand up for what is ultimately a silly song is ludicrous. You don't know Colin Kaepernick so how can you make a judgement about a person like that?
5) soldiers like my great grandfather (Korea) and both grandfathers (Vietnam) didn't fight for a piece of cloth and some song, they fought for the country and the right to do things like protest. But please, lecture me about the sacrifices they were prepared to make and what they were prepared to make them for.

I doubt your great-grandfather would have been thrilled to see flag-burners.

If your grandfathers got spat upon at an airport or a bus station by some misguided peacenik types, if they ever got called "baby killers", "murderers" and such while wearing their uniform stateside, I can assure you that this behavior came about because the "kneelers" of that generation made it OK in certain circles to do so.

Now I notice you've now got the screen name "Cold War Liberal".  You and I may not be as far apart on this issue as it initially appears.  I would suggest, however, that it was the "Cold War Liberals" that the "kneelers" of 1972 declared as their enemy and spent the next 20 years trying to run them out of the Democratic Party.  There's nothing "liberal" in hating America, and that's the real posture of a significant number of the "kneelers".  

[Fuzzy Bear]

If white NFL players were kneeling for the national anthem to protest the legality of abortion, they would be widely loved and lauded by conservatives.

Not unanimously so, but the anger and vitriol from the Right wouldn't be nearly as high.

*cough* Tim Tebow *cough*

Not true.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump: "Maybe you shouldn't be in the country" if you don't stand for the flag

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Disgusting totalitarianism espoused from the President yet again.

My opinion on this issue:

There need to be actual reasons to feel national pride before symbols of pride mean anything.

I know (or knew; many are now dead) many men of the WWII generation who would wholeheartedly agree with Donald Trump on this issue, including some who never voted Republican in their lives.  These are the men that defended our country and defeated REAL facism during WWII.  Men like the REAL JFK, not posers with a red avatar.  A few I knew were Ellis Island immigrants; many were first generation American born.  To a man, they'd agree with Trump.

Their reasons for national pride was the freedom it gave them.  Their reasons for national pride was that they were citizens of a nation that took them in, made them one of their own, and was a GOOD nation as well as a GREAT nation.

You have no idea as to what either goodness or greatness is.

While I am not a big fan of having the Pledge of Allegiance or the National Anthem leading off every public meeting or sporting event I attend, others disagree with me, and I may well be in the minority in our society on this issue.  When the National Anthem is part of the venue, I stand for the flag because I love my country, and I revere its ideals, even when they're honored in the breach more than in the observance.  And there is something wrong with someone who has been given the opportunity the NFL affords its players when they can't stand for the National Anthem as far as I'm concerned.  I stand to honor both our nation and the flesh-and-blood men who fought to defend it, and especially those who fought in the most terrible war in history, WWII. 

A few things:
1) what some dead person who I admire thinks is not the main thing influencing my positions on current issues
2) I never called Trump fascist, I called this particular statement of his totalitarian, which is different and much more accurate
3) I stand for the anthem because I love the stated ideals of this somewhat flawed country. If I didn't I'd leave, I have the means to. One of the ideals is freedom of expression and the ability to protest, and the freedom to speak out against protest you don't like, and discuss issues like police brutality that need to be addressed.
4) to assume that people who have the means to leave America hate America because they don't stand up for what is ultimately a silly song is ludicrous. You don't know Colin Kaepernick so how can you make a judgement about a person like that?
5) soldiers like my great grandfather (Korea) and both grandfathers (Vietnam) didn't fight for a piece of cloth and some song, they fought for the country and the right to do things like protest. But please, lecture me about the sacrifices they were prepared to make and what they were prepared to make them for.

I doubt your great-grandfather would have been thrilled to see flag-burners.

If your grandfathers got spat upon at an airport or a bus station by some misguided peacenik types, if they ever got called "baby killers", "murderers" and such while wearing their uniform stateside, I can assure you that this behavior came about because the "kneelers" of that generation made it OK in certain circles to do so.

Now I notice you've now got the screen name "Cold War Liberal".  You and I may not be as far apart on this issue as it initially appears.  I would suggest, however, that it was the "Cold War Liberals" that the "kneelers" of 1972 declared as their enemy and spent the next 20 years trying to run them out of the Democratic Party.  There's nothing "liberal" in hating America, and that's the real posture of a significant number of the "kneelers".  

Why would people be trying to improve America if they hated it? I no understand.

Many of the "kneelers" are not working to "improve America".  They are working to improve the conditions of "the black community", not America as a whole, and while those two goals aren't mutually exclusive, they do involve different concepts.  They are no more tied into the idea of being part of the whole of America than the neo-Confederates, who, really, aren't a part of the nation that is the United States of America.  (Those folks think they're doing a great thing defending Confederate monuments, and that may or may not be so, but that's not something they're doing for "America".)

America is not improved when an environment is created to where persons honestly believe that they have the right to resist a lawful arrest (e. g. Eric Garner) or not be captured and taken into custody after committing a violent felony (e. g. Michael Brown).  I've yet to hear one of the "kneelers' condemn Michael Brown's strong-arm robbery of a frail woman at a convenience store.  That silence convinces me that it's not the well-being of America as a whole that they are working to advance.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Many of the "kneelers" are not working to "improve America".  They are working to improve the conditions of "the black community", not America as a whole, and while those two goals aren't mutually exclusive, they do involve different concepts.  They are no more tied into the idea of being part of the whole of America than the neo-Confederates, who, really, aren't a part of the nation that is the United States of America.  (Those folks think they're doing a great thing defending Confederate monuments, and that may or may not be so, but that's not something they're doing for "America".)

America is not improved when an environment is created to where persons honestly believe that they have the right to resist a lawful arrest (e. g. Eric Garner) or not be captured and taken into custody after committing a violent felony (e. g. Michael Brown).  I've yet to hear one of the "kneelers' condemn Michael Brown's strong-arm robbery of a frail woman at a convenience store. That silence convinces me that it's not the well-being of America as a whole that they are working to advance.

THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN

We've been over this before. Stop clinging to the myths that confirm your worldview.

Show me the condemnations of Michael Brown, and I'll stand corrected.

[Fuzzy Bear]

So you think the government should be pressuring a private business to make policies one way or another?

I think kneeling during the anthem is horrible and a real dumbass move, but I don't think the government should be pressuring private businesses in a political way. I'm glad the NFL made this move but I wonder about if they felt pressured by government officials (like Trump.)

It should be the NFL's call alone. It's like how Al Gore tried to ban music with "Satanic" lyrics or whatever. The government needs to stay the hell out of the free market's business.

I've not said the government should "pressure" a private business on things like this. 

Trump has the same right to voice his opinion on the subject as any other citizen. 

[Fuzzy Bear]

A false equivilence.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Many of the "kneelers" are not working to "improve America".  They are working to improve the conditions of "the black community", not America as a whole, and while those two goals aren't mutually exclusive, they do involve different concepts.  They are no more tied into the idea of being part of the whole of America than the neo-Confederates, who, really, aren't a part of the nation that is the United States of America.  (Those folks think they're doing a great thing defending Confederate monuments, and that may or may not be so, but that's not something they're doing for "America".)

America is not improved when an environment is created to where persons honestly believe that they have the right to resist a lawful arrest (e. g. Eric Garner) or not be captured and taken into custody after committing a violent felony (e. g. Michael Brown).  I've yet to hear one of the "kneelers' condemn Michael Brown's strong-arm robbery of a frail woman at a convenience store. That silence convinces me that it's not the well-being of America as a whole that they are working to advance.

THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN

We've been over this before. Stop clinging to the myths that confirm your worldview.

Show me the condemnations of Michael Brown, and I'll stand corrected.

You're an excellent troll. You really are.

http://<iframe width="590" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FvcJqcUlYTo" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm still waiting for your counterexample so I can stand corrected.

If I'm so obviously wrong, a few computer clicks should disprove me easily and solve the problem.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Many of the "kneelers" are not working to "improve America".  They are working to improve the conditions of "the black community", not America as a whole, and while those two goals aren't mutually exclusive, they do involve different concepts.  They are no more tied into the idea of being part of the whole of America than the neo-Confederates, who, really, aren't a part of the nation that is the United States of America.  (Those folks think they're doing a great thing defending Confederate monuments, and that may or may not be so, but that's not something they're doing for "America".)

America is not improved when an environment is created to where persons honestly believe that they have the right to resist a lawful arrest (e. g. Eric Garner) or not be captured and taken into custody after committing a violent felony (e. g. Michael Brown).  I've yet to hear one of the "kneelers' condemn Michael Brown's strong-arm robbery of a frail woman at a convenience store. That silence convinces me that it's not the well-being of America as a whole that they are working to advance.

THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT DID NOT HAPPEN

We've been over this before. Stop clinging to the myths that confirm your worldview.

Show me the condemnations of Michael Brown, and I'll stand corrected.

You're an excellent troll. You really are.

http://<iframe width="590" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FvcJqcUlYTo" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm still waiting for your counterexample so I can stand corrected.

If I'm so obviously wrong, a few computer clicks should disprove me easily and solve the problem.

As repeatedly posted and discussed, Brown did not rob a store. It was a heavily edited hoax video, and what actually happened is that the clerk tried to stiff Brown on a private transaction, and Brown took the goods he had legitimately paid for.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=did+michael+brown+rob+a+store

Yet every time this is pointed out to you, you ignore it and a few weeks later keep posting it over and over again in unrelated threads. So I assume you'll probably ignore this and do it again in a few weeks.


Also, everyone in the hoax video is male. I don't know why you keep insisting that Brown beats up a woman in the video or whatever, because I can't even find Brietbart or whoever claiming that it's a woman.

http://www.ibtimes.com/michael-brown-robbed-convenience-store-stole-cigarillos-darren-wilson-shooting-dorian-1729359

I'll ride with this.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Most NFL fans support this policy

Since when has the popular vote mattered to Republicans?

Not every state has an NFL Franchise.  Perhaps it's an Electoral College victory, lol.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Vox: The NFL’s “take a knee” ban is flatly illegal

Article is from Benjamin Sachs, the Kestnbaum professor of labor and industry at Harvard Law School.

That's not how I read the article.  I get it that this is a discussion of Workplace Rules, but it is also clear to me that this issue is, indeed, a "partial strike" which is not protected.