Hillary Was A Goldwater Girl (user search)
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  Hillary Was A Goldwater Girl (search mode)
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Author Topic: Hillary Was A Goldwater Girl  (Read 4410 times)
Fuzzy Bear
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« on: July 28, 2016, 09:27:32 AM »
« edited: July 28, 2016, 09:54:29 AM by Fuzzy Bear »

So what? That was literally generations ago. People change, especially after 40+ years. A person's youth is a volatile time for crafting a worldview.

Pretty sure all of us know at least some older folks that were not the same people in their teens/20s and have differing views, crafted by their experiences in life.

People do change.  I was a McGovern Democrat as a teenager, and a Vietnam War Moratorium protester before I could vote.  I was the youngest member ever of my county's Democratic Committee when I was in high school, befoer I graduated.

That I have become a born-again Christian is NOT the reason I no longer identify myself as a Democrat.  I am registered as a Republican because Florida requires party registration for primary voting, but I have voted Democrats in 7 of 10 Presidential elections, abstaining once (1980) and voting for the GOP twice (Bush 43 in 2000, McCain in 2008).  The antipathy that the Democratic Party exhibits for conservative Christians doesn't help me with them, however.

The main reason is that the Democratic Party has rejected the idea that nuclear families make up the building blocks of civil society and are indispensible for liberal democracy to function as it ought to:

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I firmly believe that many of the social policies the Democratic Party has actively advanced in this millenium are policies that actively undermine the seedbed for needed virtues.  We have seen an explosion in single parent families, driven in no small measure by a welfare system that incentivizes NOT marrying and NOT gaining employment, but are those families seedbeds for "independence", "self-restraint", "responsibility", and "right conduct"?  I am all for the safety net, and I voted for Obama in 2012 because Romney (and the dethroned Movement Conservatives) seemed willing to trash the safety net in its entirety for tax cuts, but there has been a dismissal of "family" as a mere wedge issue, and not the reality of family as the institution that makes liberal democracy possible.

The virtues I speak about don't just happen in societies.  A look across the globe ought to confirm that, but some folks only see what they want to see.  And the condition of families in many societies is not what it is (or, at least, was) in America; loyalty is first to tribe and warlord.  Does that produce a society that serves the common weal?  There are alternatives for the traditional nuclear family, but an alternative is not a substitute; often, it's mere "making do" because there isn't a better choice.  Yes, we've had single mothers forever, but Ms. Whithead, whom I've quoted, points out that the main reason for this prior to 1950 was parental mortality.  Today, it's other reasons, and it means that a huge percentage of kids are growing up in family units with at least one adult living in the household that is NOT the parent and whose vestiture in the child(ren) in that household is questionable.  (Any family counselor will tell you that the single largest bloc of families they work with, if not a majority, is with blended families and problematic stepfamilies, which includes a parent having a sexual partner who is not the parent and is not married to the parent.)

There are many folks who are rightly divorced, who need to be divorced, whose situation was legitimately intolerable and toxic.  There are many women who have become pregnant by men who were deceitful, who were not capabable of commitment, and who have been kicked to the curb.  There is a difference, however, between folks who are in situations where they have been exploited or deceived and folks who had children or fathered children knowing that they were not going to be raising or supporting those children, and that is different.  I don't want a government that regulates that behavior with a heavy-handed jackboot; except for abortion (which kills another human being), I DO want the government out of people's medical decisions.  But I also don't want a political party that I might choose to call MY party to be passively OK with this, even if they know better, because of the demands of mass constituencies within that party to look the other way at how the fabric of our civil society is being undermined.
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Fuzzy Bear
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2016, 10:01:26 AM »

Barry Goldwater was:
-Pro Choice
-Pro Gay Rights
-Strongly Disliked Evangelicals

He was pretty radical for his time, not just for economic views.
Out of curiosity--did Barry Goldwater believe that abortion should be a state issue or did he support Roe v. Wade?

He supported Roe v. Wade, because in his view it kept the government out of making private medical decisions.
So, in other words, we wasn't too big on states' rights, correct?

Abortion wasn't even an issue in 1964.

Goldwater was something of a libertarian Republican; the closest thing to it besides Ron Paul.  In retirement, he actually endorsed Democrat Karan English for Congress in a 1992 Arizona Congressional race versus Doug Wead, a Bush Administration Religious Right figure and a motivational speaker, and some of this was a reaction to Pat Buchanan's Culture Wars speech at the 1992 GOP convention.  Goldwater valued INDIVIDUAL rights over the rights of government, even states, and was consistent in this.  I wouldn't want Barry Goldwater for my Pastor, but I wouldn't want the Republican Party to become my church, either.
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Fuzzy Bear
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2016, 01:30:36 PM »

Nobody ever gives Liz Warren crap and she voted for Ronald Fing Reagan...

who never gets crap either, even though he was a registered Democrat from the time he was old enough to vote in 1929 until 1962, and a New Deal supporter for most of that period as well.  In 1962 he famously said,  "I didn't leave the Democratic Party.  The party left me."

Kerry's wife was a registered Republican from the beginning of time till her husband ran for president in 2004. 

People change.  There are plenty of good reasons not to support Hillary Clinton.  The fact that she was a Republican before she was a Democrat is not one of them. 


Reagan did, very much, change a number of positions he held.  The Democratic Party didn't really leave him; he was impacted by the Communist infiltration of the Screen Actors Guild, the conservatism of his second father-in-law (Dr. Loyal Davis, a very real father figure to Reagan), and by the corporate leanings of those who sponsored him in the 1950s as host of Death Valley Days and GE Theater, as well as those who provided speaking fees for him on the Chicken-and-Peas circuit.  The Democratic Party of 1964 was little or no more liberal than the Democratic Party of 1948, when Reagan was foursquare for Harry Truman.

Teresa Heinz Kerry's late husband, Sen. John Heinz (R-PA), was a moderate Republican, even liberal on some issues.  Her party switch from liberal Republican to Democrat wasn't a huge shift.  Pennsylvania had a significant moderate-to-liberal wing of its GOP that lasted into the 1980s. 
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