Did that thread about a woman's atlas get deleted?

[Northeast Rep Snowball]

I have a feeling that this thread is going to be deleted too...

Anything or anyone who refers to that which has been disappeared will also be disappeared.

But yes, it is so tiresome that any interesting discussion has been disallowed here, and in particular that the moderators seem to think women are some kind of delicate weak flowers who can't partake in a political debate.

They can debate all right -they just don't like creepy PMs from certain posters (you know who you are....) being sent to them. 

I feel like everyone on the board would have to be anonymous for interesting debate on certain subjects.

[Northeast Rep Snowball]

but then there is going to be a thread called Why did that thread about a that Thread about a women's atlas get deleted?

[Northeast Rep Snowball]

I'm safely above 500, so its fine either way.

[Northeast Rep Snowball]

But eventually it needs to be about "what do you want to do."  There will always be deficits of women in some fields as there will be deficits of men in others.  The point is to ensure that those imbalances are not intentional on an institutional level, but instead reflect the desires of men and women seeking to achieve their goals in life.  (Which is why I strongly oppose a 50/50 balance in parliament, for example.  But it is maybe necessary as an intermediate step.)

I think my point, as well as that of Gustaf, Nathan and others, is to remind that barriers that prevent you from doing what you want to do are not always explicit or visible. They don't generally work in the form of "we don't want women here". It's a much more subtle process, that starts from the early childhood, and slowly encourages men and women to adopt different attitudes, develop different skills, follow different paths, etc. It's not enough to say "now women must not be excluded from certain professions". Because if the general assumptions of the employer and the coworkers are still influenced by gender stereotypes, a woman still has little chance to succeed in certain fields. And furthermore, women are even discouraged from seeking certain careers in the first place, at the level of primary or secondary education already.

It's also worth noting that this form of subtle discrimination exists for men as well, though it's limited to only a few categories like nursing, which do not convey much social consideration.

But the point is, eliminating obvious forms of discrimination is not enough. You have to go deeper and reshape mentalities outright.

Pretty much this. Although I'll add that it's a lot worse to be discriminated against in, you know, every high-paying job like banking, law, politics and so on than in the ones with the lowest status and wages, like elderly care, nursing and teaching.

PS: in before Lief says that women have an advantage in the great career choice of porn stardom...

Again with the d word. It's a very powerful and meaningful term. Reflexively applying it without any evidence other than unprovable claims of subtle, undefined situations is quite an injustice to people who have actually faced discrimination. It is very insulting to people who have faced real and substantial institutionalized hurdles to apply the term so liberally. A couple of specific counter examples may help to draw a contrast. Both of my parents grew up in cities with large black populations. However, both of them went to public schools that were 100% white because blacks were not allowed to attend them. My grandparents faced a great many legal restrictions in their childhood because they were Jewish. All you are able to suggest is that women face some sort of very subtle and undefined cultural roadblock. Which brings us back to my earlier point. Why do you think women are so weak that they are unable to get past even the most subtle of challenges even though they very much want to? I know that you are trying to be sympathetic, but your rigid orthodixies are not painting a very nice picture of women. Women are not passive victims. They are real people with agency.

It's not really that subtle to people hurt by it. You can't honestly be this dense. This is not about women being fragile, as I already said. I don't think men would fare much better. Wait, in fact, I know they don't. Because men are just as barred from traditionally female pursuits . It's just that since we men already have most of the really good stuff reserevd for us fewer men are hurt by it.
You're assuming that if someone is the victim of discrimination that is not explicit and legal they have to be weak. That is...pretty horrible.

I have to call BS on this one, unless you count things that biologically men can't do, in most cases there exist a male substitute, but it is less watched. In comparison would be most women's sports.

For example
" Although I'll add that it's a lot worse to be discriminated against in, you know, every high-paying job like banking, law, politics and so on than in the ones with the lowest status and wages, like elderly care, nursing and teaching.

PS: in before Lief says that women have an advantage in the great career choice of porn stardom..."

I know plenty well that this are a fine population of men are in nursing and teaching, and have not found any stats on elderly care, from what I would gather there are plently of male poeple getting profits from porn, one way or another.

[Northeast Rep Snowball]

I'm thinking there may a cultural difference between work environments in the US and Europe. All the European posters insist that sexual harassment is omnipresent and intense while most American posters are pointing out that this sort of behavior is completely unacceptable and that companies are aggressive in preventing and punishing it. I don't know anything about European business, but it's the only rational explanation for the disparity in experiences.

Eh, no. See, none of us have experienced this because we're not women. I just posted a bunch of links to research papers from the US talking about this. Did you just ignore that?

The rational explanation for you (who don't know anything about this topic) not being aware of something is that it doesn't exist? Good luck managing life with that attitude.

It definitely doesn't exist here in Thailand in Universities...

We need a women on this thread to give answers.

[Northeast Rep Snowball]

The best response if he doesn't want to apologize in not to respond, or to go on about how you misinterpreted his point.

[Northeast Rep Snowball]

I'm thinking there may a cultural difference between work environments in the US and Europe. All the European posters insist that sexual harassment is omnipresent and intense while most American posters are pointing out that this sort of behavior is completely unacceptable and that companies are aggressive in preventing and punishing it. I don't know anything about European business, but it's the only rational explanation for the disparity in experiences.

Eh, no. See, none of us have experienced this because we're not women. I just posted a bunch of links to research papers from the US talking about this. Did you just ignore that?

The rational explanation for you (who don't know anything about this topic) not being aware of something is that it doesn't exist? Good luck managing life with that attitude.

It definitely doesn't exist here in Thailand in Universities...

We need a women on this thread to give answers.

We have three women on the entire forum off of the top of my head, and two of them are transgendered.

Go gender equality! Woo!

Yes, I guess then I would want Rinchan to post here... maybe. While I value nathan and DRJ101 not only have the already posted here they haven't been born women, so they a different level of discrimination.