Terrorist takeover of Federal building in Oregon

[Mr. Reactionary]

This is not militia. Every big time militia player has condemned it. Vanderboegh, Codrea, Oath Keepers, and Oregon and Idaho 3%. Even the ones who want blood like Kerodin and Cliven Bundy has washed their hands of this. The guys who are the subject of the protest have condemned it. Twitter feed last night said probably no more than 15 guys at most. This is just a few bad apples hanging around an isolated building with guns pretending they are making a difference. No one has been hurt, nothing has been destroyed, and nothing will come of this as long as the Feds don't play into their trap. If this becomes a shootout, the Feds lose. Automatically. Unintended Consequences are a bitch, and nobody sane thinks this is the time for that.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2016/01/perfect-timing-for-regime-federal.html

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2016/01/3-of-oregon-official-press-release.html

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2016/01/oath-keepers-hammond-family-does-not.html

[Mr. Reactionary]

More from Vanderboegh:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2016/01/no-more-free-wacos-national-three.html


The wisest course of action for the Feds is to ignore this, and if they must respond, just peacefully lay siege and let the morons freeze, starve, and then surrender.

[Mr. Reactionary]

More from Vanderboegh:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2016/01/no-more-free-wacos-national-three.html


The wisest course of action for the Feds is to ignore this, and if they must respond, just peacefully lay siege and let the morons freeze, starve, and then surrender.

I'm sure you (and every other conservative out there) would be singing a different tune if it were Muslims doing this.

Please. Due process is due process. True constitutionalists denounced the execution of al-awlaki's kid too, even though he was Muslim and that actually took place close to a war zone. The actions of the nuts in Oregon should be condemned, and maybe they should ultimately be charged, but if the feds force an armed confrontation you have no idea the unintended consequences that will result. I've interacted with these militia types before. Many of the radical ideologues are just waiting for a spark from the Feds. And they all have guns and have read unintended consequences by John Ross. Once that happens best case scenario you'll only have a few dozen of the most radical start killing bureaucrats. Worst case is domestic violence unheard of since reconstruction. So don't try and turn this into a race/religion thing. Even Klan filth deserve their day in court. The Montana Freemen surrendered. No reason to think straight up murder is called for here.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Indeed.  The left wants blood.

I don't want blood, I want law being applied to them the same way we do with Muslim terrorists.

A terrorist is a terrorist. No matter its ideology.

And a citizen is a citizen, even if they are a criminal. Peacefully Sitting around an abandoned shack in the Oregon wilderness with a gun does not warrant drones and tanks. It warrants an eventual arrest (peacefully), a trial, a conviction, and then a jail sentence. Let's assume all the protesters are black and that black lives matter. Imagine the backlash for violently "taking out" the protesters just because they appear scary and angry. You would be accused of dehumanizing black people. The criminals in Oregon are not hurting anyone, but they are trying to provoke violence against themselves. Why reward them with the terror they want?

Hopefully this is handled better than noted leftist George Bush Sr. handled Ruby Ridge in 1992.

Agreed. The feds shot an unarmed woman in the head and a 14 year old boy in the back ... over a tax issue and illegal entrapment.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Agreed. The feds shot an unarmed woman in the head and a 14 year old boy in the back ... over a tax issue and illegal entrapment.

Disgusting.

The only persons to blame over that tragedy is the woman and the parents of the boy for joining such a blood-lusty cult. They are the responsible ones.

What the hell are you talking about? Weaver wasn't in a cult. He moved his family to northern Idaho and was illegally entrapped (according to a legal jury verdict) into committing a minor tax violation in the hopes that he would become a government mole. The Feds sent him a summons with an incorrect date on it, therefore he failed to show up to court. Armed feds wearing no uniforms and no badges trespassed on his property, but not to serve any warrants. When Weaver's dogs detected the Feds, the feds shot the dogs. Then there was a firefight between Weaver's 14 year old son + a friend and the non-uniformed, announced trespassing feds who had just shot the family dogs in cold bold. Ballistics show the 14 year old son was shot in the back. 2 days into the standoff a "trained" government sniper shot Weaver's wife through the head as she was holding a baby.

I don't care if you're white, black, purple, or blue, that's not how you treat citizens, especially over a tax matter. A criminal jury found Weaver not guilty of murder or the tax violations because of entrapment. The Feds are clearly to blame, otherwise the Weaver children wouldn't have each gotten blood money from the feds in a civil trial.

[Mr. Reactionary]

So many terrorist sympathisers in this thread. Shameful.

Can you imagine if these radical redneck jihadists were Black, let alone Arabs?

Racist bigot.

[Mr. Reactionary]

I wonder if the Call of Duty lefties expect the FBI to use long-distance snipers or explosives against U.S. citizens domestically?

[Mr. Reactionary]

For those of us old enough to remember:



Is this what the right-wing militias are hoping for? 

That's exactly what I'd do if I was the governor. Set the place on fire and say, "You're either coming out with your hands up, or you'll fry." Then try the ones who do come out with sedition and throw them in prison for life.

Wow. What disgusting filth you are. Guess you supported the cop who strangled Garner in New York for not surrender the second they made eye contact. Or that cop in SC who shot the man who was behind on his child support payments in the back because he ran. We have a bill of rights that forbids punishment without trial. Burning citizens alive when there is no imminent threat to the peace is monstrous, immoral, and tyrannical. If you were a governor and carried out such a summary execution, you would be lucky if the only thing you faced was impeachment.

On a lesser note, since the only crime here is that these people are illegally trespassing in a federal building, burning down said federal building seems like a stupid way to end the crime.

[Mr. Reactionary]

As usual, conservatives and those on the right don't see the difference between this and OWS/BLM

Not the first time the right has been unable to think clearly and see the bigger picture, and unfortunately not the last.

What is the difference? They all are acting/have acted in a way injurious to public order. Of course, the OWS and BLM activists were probably causing considerably more inconvenience to the general public than these wackos who are occupying a bunch of isolated cabins, as opposed to protesting and generally causing disruption in major urban centres.

I may be crazy, but I think guns are a pretty big difference.

Maybe just me though.

The guns are more of a prop than anything at this point. This is a rouges gallery of some of the nuttiest nuts of the radical faction of the militia movement. They've said some hyperbolic things, but I don't see them offensively starting the shooting. Even Kerodin, whose faction is always huffing and puffing about "going hot" and shooting bureaucrats as well as their family members is non-committal on reprisals. There are between 15 - 20 at most on the ground in Oregon; there were hundreds at the 2014 Bundy standoff.

Matt Bracken,  an influential author in the movement posted: "Some might believe that the Oregon Standoff is our Concord Bridge. Some might believe that it is our Fort Sumter moment.
But I think that the Oregon Standoff is a buffalo jump. The feds and their agents-provocateurs embedded among the Oregon "militia" patsies are waving blankets and smoky torches around the buffalo herd. Foolish people are running at a gallop right toward a cliff."

Vanderboegh's faction is staying out of it. Oath Keepers is staying out of it. Poppa Bundy is staying out of it. With no backup coming the few nuts on the ground aren't going to do anything, because nobody else is coming to bail them out.

18 U.S.C. § 930(d)(3), which prohibits the carrying of guns in federal buildings has an exception for "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes." So if they say they're hunting + camping + protesting, which they kind of are, the guns don't really seem out of place, so long as the persons carrying them are allowed to do so under state law. Open carry is legal in Oregon. Yeah guns can be dangerous, but their being in such a rural place is different than if they were doing this in Zucotti Park.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Just let them go. Don't give them any ammunition to say that the federal government has imposed any hardship on them whatsoever. Make them look like cowardly fools who can't even properly outfit themselves for a siege, but need the government to magnanimously let them go out for snacks to re-equip. If this were more pressing or in a more populated area or something I might think otherwise, but it's probably the right move to not play at all into their dreams of martyrdom and persecution.

Exactly. We even have precedent for peaceful solutions.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/14/us/last-of-freemen-surrender-to-fbi-at-montana-site.html

[Mr. Reactionary]

I hope when they pass out the government airlifts them to a nice publicly-owned federal hospital to give them nice treatment

Despite the guns and camo, I doubt most the protesters qualify for VA hospital care.

So what's the casualty rate so far? How about infrastructure damage? What's the affected area?

Apparently some Paiutes are mad that their stuff got touched. And the protesters also snow plowed over some sacred dirt when they were clearing a road.

[Mr. Reactionary]

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/lavoy-finicum-the-oregon-militant-beaneath-the-blue-tarp-killed-in-police-shootout-reports/