Cabinet Reform Amendment (Failed)

[Lumine]

Once again, Speaker Bore, thank you for sponsoring this.

Over the past few months I have been gradually convinced that the cabinet is in need of reform, and during the start of my administration I sought to experiment a bit with the cabinet by creating deputies, renaming a few positions and overall trying to change the way the cabinet works. Those efforts were not as successful as I would have hoped, but they helped me realize that changes can and must be enacted. This proposal is one that will need discussion and changes, but overall the idea is to:

-Establish a section in the Constitution dealing with the cabinet, seeing as the current constitution has the references of the cabinet split in several places and those can be quite ambiguous.
-Divide the cabinet in five departments, each one with its own duty and its officers. In this case we retain the current post, but with a renaming that makes more sense than the current one (I actually think SoIA and SoEA are dull names).
-Allow the cabinet members to hire deputies to split the work and focus on particular issues (instead of just allowing the AG, SoFE and GM to do so).
-Formally confirm the role of the Senate in dismissing a GM without Presidential approval, to avoid another DemPGH/SirNick situation.
-Finally, clear up the other references so the main cabinet section is the sole one concerned with this part of the government.

[Lumine]

I obviously oppose the constant attempt made by Lumine to make the executive power stronger.
Just to be clear by the way, I don't believe you're a far-rightwinger or anytning like that Lumine, you seem to believe in a ultra presidential system I don't like.

Please explain, how this gives more power to the executive? My intention here is to organize the cabinet and make it more efficient, not pursue an ultra presidential system.

I will definetely not support adding the Game Moderator to the cabinet. If we want that position to have some true independence and credibility, we can in no way make him a cabinet position. If any change here, I would go the other way, rather than having him appointed by the President, being approved by the Senate without Presidential appointment.

It's certainly sensible to order this all in one part, though I believe Clause 2 needs to be amended as it talks about a "Departement of Federal Elections" which is neither created nor tasked with anything the clause above, so legally does not exist, if I am thinking this correctly.

I would prefer Internal and External Affairs to State and Interior, but that is I guess the smallest question, and one of personal taste.

What do you mean with "presidential appointment", Cranberry? I may have misunderstood your argument here, but the current system has the President nominate a GM that the Senate has to approve, which I believe is the best mechanism available. I understand the concerns related to the Game Moderator and I would be happy to see this amended so he is out of the cabinet and not subordinated to the President (it should be noted I defended the role of the Senate in dismissing a Game Moderator even before we had the October conflict), remember that is just an early idea.

[Lumine]

Very well, I'll try to propose an amendment later today, establishing a new section for the GM (along with Deputy GM) separate from the cabinet, and correcting the mistake in clause two.

[Lumine]

Right, the strawman-style attacks aside, I want to propose an amendment:

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Article V, Section 1 of the Constitution is hereby amended to read:

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Article VIII, Section 2 of the Constitution is hereby amended to read:

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[/quote]

[Lumine]

Cranberry is right when to comes to the spirit of this bill being that the Cabinet can have its own organized section. I know we can't have a bloated constitution, but if we have to take things for granted and rely on several pieces of legislation to state the duties of our cabinet members then we might as well organize the information in a better and more formal way.

My proposal for "State" and Interior" was a personal preference of mine, but if there's a consensus in the Senate than Internal and External Affairs are better suited to the Cabinet, then that's fine with me.

[Lumine]

Very well, I propose the following amendment based on Yankee's advice:

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Article V, Section 1 of the Constitution is hereby amended to read:

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Article VIII, Section 2 of the Constitution is hereby amended to read:

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[/quote]

[Lumine]

This is why I'm ambivalent about this amendment. I'd prefer that the cabinet not be codified in the constitution so that it's more easy to remove, add, redefine, etc. offices as becomes necessary.

That I perfectly understand, we never know when we might to make changes and so Yankee's amendment makes perfect sense to me, but wouldn't it be better for the sake of clarity and legality that the Cabinet becomes a formal part of the Constitution? Given the crucial role that its member can have at times I do think it's for the best if their jobs are not so "up in the air", we might say.

[Lumine]

Is this amendment finished?

Unless there are more concerns put forward by the Senate, I think it should be ready.

[Lumine]

I actually do trust the Senate to remove an unreliable GM from office regardless of office and I am concerned that three fifths could make it easier for a GM to be removed because of partisan reasons, but overall I am not really opposed to this. What do the rest think?

[Lumine]

I support a final vote, I'm quite happy with the current version.

[Lumine]

Oh well, no use getting mad because of this. (That said, I hope some Senators will start voting more often at the start of the next session)

[Lumine]

I'm talking about myself, Windjammer, but yes, I share the frustration.