Re: Arkansas GOPer: Slavery was a blessing in disguise for blacks

[Oldiesfreak1854]

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I think this is being taken out of contest.  He wasn't saying that slavery was a good thing, he was saying that the former slaves would be blessed by being granted citizenship after slavery was ended, and that that was a great thing after all the adversity they faced.  Never mind that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship and suffrage to former slaves, or that it was Democrats who fought against all of those measures.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2012/10/05/republican-extremists-in-their-own-words#.UG8Wr-XNpyk.twitter

Extremism is no vice among Arkansas Republicans. And, no, I'm not talking about neo-Confederate Republican Rep. Loy Mauch, who once tried to have Abraham Lincoln's bust removed from the Hot Springs Convention Center.

There's also Rep. Jon Hubbard of Jonesboro, famously unhinged, who's put some of his choicest thoughts on paper in a book available on Amazon, “Letters to the Editor: Confessions of a Frustrated Conservative.”

...

“… the institution of slavery that the black race has long believed to be an abomination upon its people may actually have been a blessing in disguise. The blacks who could endure those conditions and circumstances would someday be rewarded with citizenship in the greatest nation ever established upon the face of the Earth.” (Pages 183-89)

Never mind that Lincoln was a Republican, or that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship to blacks,or that it was Democrats who supported the Confederacy and Republicans the Union during the Civil War.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

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I think this is being taken out of contest.  He wasn't saying that slavery was a good thing, he was saying that the former slaves would be blessed by being granted citizenship after slavery was ended, and that that was a great thing after all the adversity they faced.  Never mind that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship and suffrage to former slaves, or that it was Democrats who fought against all of those measures.

You are dangerously close to being on my ignore list. Do you have any legitimate points or can you not comprehend any events that have transpired in the last 140 years? Are you from some kind of time void that opened up and spit you into the present? Are you the reincarnation of Thaddeus Stevens?

I can.  The liberal agenda of cradle-to-grave welfare for racial minorities is the antithesis of civil rights.  The best way to advance civil rights is to increase economic opportunity for racial minorities by helping make them independent.  Welfare in its current state (or, as Clinton would say, "welfare as we know it",) is the slavery of the 21st Century.  We need to reform our social programs so that they make people independent rather than dependent.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Never mind indeed. These people are Republicans today. They wouldn't have been a hundred years ago, of course, but that was a hundred years ago.

I didn't know Bob Byrd was a Republican when he died.

A few of the racists and segregationist, like Strom Thurmond and David Duke, may have become Republicans, but the vast majority of them stayed Democrats for life.  Last time Bob Byrd and Fritz Hollings were in the Senate, they were still Democrats.  George Wallace, Bull Connor, Lester Maddox, George Mahoney, Herman Talmadge, Orval Faubus, William Fulbright, Sam Ervin, Al Gore Sr., and the rest all stayed with the Democratic Party for the rest of their lives.  And most openly white supremacist Republicans, like David Duke, are never accepted by the Party today.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Never mind that Lincoln was a Republican, or that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship to blacks...

Oh Gawd.  Every single time with these right wing shills.  Seriously you have to go all the way back to the 1800s to find a Republican platform that is semicivilized?

Never mind indeed. These people are Republicans today. They wouldn't have been a hundred years ago, of course, but that was a hundred years ago.

George Wallace...

Mmmm... George Wallace is dead.  Furthermore how are you so well versed about what was going on in Lincoln's day but have no clue about the 70s?  Just to get you up to speed...

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How on earth do you not know this?  What are they teaching in schools these days?  Or are you a victim of home schooling?

I did know that, but he stayed a Democrat even after that.  Those guys may be dead and gone, but doesn't it still matter that they were Democrats (and never became Republicans)?  I bet you wouldn't be excusing unsavory figures in the GOP by saying "those people are dead."

[Oldiesfreak1854]

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I think this is being taken out of contest.  He wasn't saying that slavery was a good thing, he was saying that the former slaves would be blessed by being granted citizenship after slavery was ended, and that that was a great thing after all the adversity they faced.  Never mind that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship and suffrage to former slaves, or that it was Democrats who fought against all of those measures.

You do realize that a huge portion of Democrats were in favor of civil rights by the time the Civil Rights Act was passed and that only a small portion of Dixiecrats were opposed, right?

Yes.  But in terms of percentages, more Republicans supported the 1964 Civil Rights Act than Democrats.

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I think this is being taken out of contest.  He wasn't saying that slavery was a good thing, he was saying that the former slaves would be blessed by being granted citizenship after slavery was ended, and that that was a great thing after all the adversity they faced.  Never mind that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship and suffrage to former slaves, or that it was Democrats who fought against all of those measures.

Tens of thousands of African immigrants who did not have their family units destroyed and their cultural identity flushed down the toilet humbly disagree.  If you see the descendents of slaves celebrating Kwanza and think they are better off than African immigrants who have their language, culture, and identity intact you are even more delusional than we thought.



That's awful.  Thank God the descendents of slaves don't have to have a burden like that!

By Oldiesfreak1854 logic since a lot of Jews were allowed to immigrate to the US in the 30s and 40s we should all send a big thank you card to Hitler.

Disgusting.

No; I support keeping their cultural identity, but I'm saying that they have become dependent on welfare and that is keeping them down.  And a lot of other Jews weren't allowed into the US during the Nazi regime and the Holocaust.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

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I think this is being taken out of contest.  He wasn't saying that slavery was a good thing, he was saying that the former slaves would be blessed by being granted citizenship after slavery was ended, and that that was a great thing after all the adversity they faced.  Never mind that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship and suffrage to former slaves, or that it was Democrats who fought against all of those measures.

Tens of thousands of African immigrants who did not have their family units destroyed and their cultural identity flushed down the toilet humbly disagree.  If you see the descendents of slaves celebrating Kwanza and think they are better off than African immigrants who have their language, culture, and identity intact you are even more delusional than we thought.



That's awful.  Thank God the descendents of slaves don't have to have a burden like that!

By Oldiesfreak1854 logic since a lot of Jews were allowed to immigrate to the US in the 30s and 40s we should all send a big thank you card to Hitler.

Disgusting.

No; I support keeping their cultural identity, but I'm saying that they have become dependent on welfare and that is keeping them down.

And how do you propose the descendents of slaves do that?  America already obliterated their families, eliminated their language, and destroyed all of their African traditions.  Do you think that may be why SOME of them are on welfare and African immigrants who didn't have all the glorious benefits of slavery and Jim Crow are at the top of the academic league tables?

No.  They should be allowed to keep as much or as little of their African and/or American black culture as they want.  And as for, "those guys are dead and gone now," would you give the same lenience to a now-dead Republican who did something like that (or anything else that doesn't reflect well on a person?)  I doubt it.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Never mind that Lincoln was a Republican, or that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship to blacks...

Oh Gawd.  Every single time with these right wing shills.  Seriously you have to go all the way back to the 1800s to find a Republican platform that is semicivilized?

Never mind indeed. These people are Republicans today. They wouldn't have been a hundred years ago, of course, but that was a hundred years ago.

George Wallace...

Mmmm... George Wallace is dead.  Furthermore how are you so well versed about what was going on in Lincoln's day but have no clue about the 70s?  Just to get you up to speed...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

How on earth do you not know this?  What are they teaching in schools these days?  Or are you a victim of home schooling?

I did know that, but he stayed a Democrat even after that.  Those guys may be dead and gone, but doesn't it still matter that they were Democrats (and never became Republicans)?

No, it doesn't matter that someone decades ago was a Democrat and that his ideology has been completely rejected by the party.

Let's talk about Nixon, and how the GOP is the party of lying thieving scumbags. Doesn't it matter that Nixon was a Republican?

There have been plenty of lying thieving scumbags in the Democratic Party as well.  No party has a monopoly on that.  This exactly illustrates my point.  Nixon is dead.  But you are so quick to portray Republicans as liars, thieves, and scumbags because he was a Republican.  And aside from Watergate, Nixon was actually a pretty good president.

Also, Al Gore Sr. was never a segregationist. He was one of only four senators from the South that refused to sign the Southern Manifesto.

Hey may not have signed the Southern Manifesto but he also filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Never mind that Lincoln was a Republican, or that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship to blacks...

Oh Gawd.  Every single time with these right wing shills.  Seriously you have to go all the way back to the 1800s to find a Republican platform that is semicivilized?

Never mind indeed. These people are Republicans today. They wouldn't have been a hundred years ago, of course, but that was a hundred years ago.

George Wallace...

Mmmm... George Wallace is dead.  Furthermore how are you so well versed about what was going on in Lincoln's day but have no clue about the 70s?  Just to get you up to speed...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

How on earth do you not know this?  What are they teaching in schools these days?  Or are you a victim of home schooling?

I did know that, but he stayed a Democrat even after that.  Those guys may be dead and gone, but doesn't it still matter that they were Democrats (and never became Republicans)?  I bet you wouldn't be excusing unsavory figures in the GOP by saying "those people are dead."

Actually yes I would. I would consider it absurd to argue that someone should not vote Republican because it was the party of Joe McCarthy. Even Jesse Helms would be irrelevant today. I can think of hordes of living and still relevant people in the GOP that are the reason I would advise someone to never vote Republican and why I never would, just as you can no doubt name many modern Democrats you strongly dislike and would never vote for. And that's the only thing that should matter in modern day context. What you are talking about is about as logical as trying to organize boycotts of Germany because of WWII and the Holocaust. Modern day Germany bears as much resemblance to Nazi Germany as the modern day Democratic Party does to the party in the 19th century or the guys you are raving about.

I don't oppose the Democratic Party simply because they were the party of slavery and segregation, but it's certainly one reason I do.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Never mind that Lincoln was a Republican, or that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship to blacks...

Oh Gawd.  Every single time with these right wing shills.  Seriously you have to go all the way back to the 1800s to find a Republican platform that is semicivilized?

Never mind indeed. These people are Republicans today. They wouldn't have been a hundred years ago, of course, but that was a hundred years ago.

George Wallace...

Mmmm... George Wallace is dead.  Furthermore how are you so well versed about what was going on in Lincoln's day but have no clue about the 70s?  Just to get you up to speed...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

How on earth do you not know this?  What are they teaching in schools these days?  Or are you a victim of home schooling?

I did know that, but he stayed a Democrat even after that. 

That's the point.  He realized he was wrong, changed his ways, apologized, and remained in the Democratic party... the other people simply left and joined the Republicans.

Will you please knock it off???  The only major segregatiomist who became a Republican was Strom Thurmond.  Fritz Hollings was serving in the Senate as a Democrat as recently as 2004.  Bob Byrd was serving in the Senate as a Democrat as recently as 2010.  In 1993, Hollings made a comment about black potentates from Africa at the Law of the Sea conferences getting a square meal in Geneva "you know, instead of eating each other."  He also has referred to Mexicans as "wetbacks" and a Jewish lawmaker as "the Senate from B'nai B'rith."  In a 2001 interview on Fox News, Byrd repeatedly used the term 'white nig**r."  The last time I checked, neither of them ever became a Republican.  And don t forget guys like Lester Maddox. George Mahoney, Ross Barnett, William Fulbright (Bill Clinton's political mentor), Sam Ervin, Herman Talmadge, Orval Faubus, and all the rest who stayed with the Democratic party their whole lives.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Byrd rejected his past positions and was both fairly liberal (for WV Democrats) and a strong Obama supporter.

Yeah, but he repeatedly used the N-word in an interview with Fox News in 2001.

Never mind that Lincoln was a Republican, or that it was Republicans who fought to end slavery and grant citizenship to blacks...

Oh Gawd.  Every single time with these right wing shills.  Seriously you have to go all the way back to the 1800s to find a Republican platform that is semicivilized?

Never mind indeed. These people are Republicans today. They wouldn't have been a hundred years ago, of course, but that was a hundred years ago.

George Wallace...

Mmmm... George Wallace is dead.  Furthermore how are you so well versed about what was going on in Lincoln's day but have no clue about the 70s?  Just to get you up to speed...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

How on earth do you not know this?  What are they teaching in schools these days?  Or are you a victim of home schooling?

I did know that, but he stayed a Democrat even after that.  Those guys may be dead and gone, but doesn't it still matter that they were Democrats (and never became Republicans)?

No, it doesn't matter that someone decades ago was a Democrat and that his ideology has been completely rejected by the party.

Let's talk about Nixon, and how the GOP is the party of lying thieving scumbags. Doesn't it matter that Nixon was a Republican?

There have been plenty of lying thieving scumbags in the Democratic Party as well.  No party has a monopoly on that.  This exactly illustrates my point.  Nixon is dead.  But you are so quick to portray Republicans as liars, thieves, and scumbags because he was a Republican.  And aside from Watergate, Nixon was actually a pretty good president.

Yes. And there have been plenty of segregationists in the Republican Party as well (see Mr. Thurmond). No party has a monopoly on them. You're illustrating my point by bringing up dead people and painting Democrats as (what? pro-slavery or something?) them.

Actually, the vast majority of them were Democrats and stayed Democrats.  Even Thurmond was a Democrat before he became a Republican.  A few segregationists were Republicans, but they were still overwhelmingly Democrat.  I realize that both parties have had their civil rights failings and their civil rights triumphs, but Republicans were much stronger on civil rights for most of our history, and that is one reason (though not the only one) that I identify myself as a Republican.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Byrd rejected his past positions and was both fairly liberal (for WV Democrats) and a strong Obama supporter.

Yes.  It is obvious to me no matter how many times we state this FACT he will just ignore it.  Further discussion is obviously pointless.

I personally feel he's the biggest partisan on the forum. Still thinks it's 1956 ffs.

It's not a fact.  In 2001, Byrd repeatedly used the term "white nig**r" in an interview on Fox News.  Here is an article from when it happened:

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2001/03/democratic-sen-robert-byrd-ex-klansman/

I'm not saying that Democrats still support slavery or segregation, but they did in the past.  And before you say that that was in the past: would you give the same grace to Republicans for some of the nativists in the party back in the late 19th century?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Oldiesfreak, do you believe the modern day German state and government is responsible for the actions of Germany in the past? Would you agree with someone boycotting Germany because of WWII?

No, but it certainly doesn't reflect well on them, just as the Democratic Party's long history of racism doesn't reflect well on them, either.  Does it not matter to you that Germany under the Nazis committed atrocities against Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and other "inferior" or "unwanted" groups during the Holocaust?  If it does, then why doesn't it matter to you that Democrats committed atrocities against blacks through the Ku Klux Klan, supporting slavery, Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, etc.?

And even if Lincoln did have some racist views (which I still doubt), he still recognized blacks as people.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Actually, the vast majority of them were Democrats and stayed Democrats.  Even Thurmond was a Democrat before he became a Republican.  A few segregationists were Republicans, but they were still overwhelmingly Democrat.  I realize that both parties have had their civil rights failings and their civil rights triumphs, but Republicans were much stronger on civil rights for most of our history, and that is one reason (though not the only one) that I identify myself as a Republican.

Stop being a pedantic partisan hack.

Only if you guys will do the same.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Oldiesfreak, do you believe the modern day German state and government is responsible for the actions of Germany in the past? Would you agree with someone boycotting Germany because of WWII?

No, but it certainly doesn't reflect well on them...

That's disgusting.  Get a passport and a clue.  If you bothered to travel and actually sit down with any modern Germans you would realize how offensive your comment is.  I have multiple friends that are German and Austrian and I even dated a couple of Austrian girls.  If you think concentration camps in any way "reflect" upon a 22 year old Austrian college student then you have issues that we simply can't solve in a single thread.

What I meant is that it doesn't reflect well on them, even if the younger generations aren't responsible for it.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

...it certainly doesn't reflect well on them, just as the Democratic Party's long history of racism doesn't reflect well on them, either.

Oldies, all white americans have a long history of racism - we live in a racist country built on genocide.  Every aspect of our culture, our identity, and all of our material possessions, land, and 'achievements' are blood-soaked and utterly spoiled.

Stop with the flaming.  I'm white and I'm not racist, and I don't think most white Americans are racist now.  If America is a racist country, then why did we fight a civil war to end the oppressive treatment of a race (even if it was traded for another form of oppression)?  Republicans, both black and white, consistently fought to advance civil rights, and Democrats consistently fought against it.  And where is this genocide that America is supposedly built on?  Your statement is one of the most vile ant-American diatribes that I have ever seen.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

...it certainly doesn't reflect well on them, just as the Democratic Party's long history of racism doesn't reflect well on them, either.

Oldies, all white americans have a long history of racism - we live in a racist country built on genocide.  Every aspect of our culture, our identity, and all of our material possessions, land, and 'achievements' are blood-soaked and utterly spoiled.

Republicans, both black and white, consistently fought to advance civil rights, and Democrats consistently fought against it.  And where is this genocide that America is supposedly built on?

Oldiesfreak, I'm going to give you a challenge. Go an entire week without associating Democrats with racism/the Confederacy. I honestly don't think you can do it. Please prove me wrong.

Also, isn't it Saturday or something and you can't post?

I can't post until after sunset on Saturday.