Midwest Public School Abolishment Proposition

[Gabu]

Securing their future:  I don't understand, are you saying we cannot learn without Schools?  What you need to know, you will learn on the way.  What you will need to learn for your future, you'll learn because you want to learn it.

Keeping kids off the street: Maybe parents should take the responsibility?  For those who have both parents at work, they can arrange to leave them with friend.  Also, I never proposed we pay to put everyone in Private schools.

Why not?  Given the materials, can't everyone learn on their own?  For those who can't, we have "field experts" come to the Libraries.  This would be someone who actually does what they're teaching.  That is solved very simply:  Build more Libraries.  If there is more demand than supply, you get more supply.

I think they can go to the Library just as easily as they can go to a Public School.  What's the difference?

Well, it's one of the things I've always wanted to cut.

Are you honestly trying to say that you feel that abolishing public schools in lieu of libraries will somehow help education?

Your average 10-year-old's idea of a good time is being off playing with friends, not conducting independent research at the library.  There's a reason why school is mandatory: at that age, children simply don't know what's in their best interest and it would be disasterous if they turned 18 and realized how woefully unprepared they were for the real world because of bad decisions they made.

Children should not be given the freedom that adults are given simply because they are not yet able to see the big picture and make smart, informed decisions.

[Gabu]

I think if someone isn’t forced into it, they will want to learn.  I know I’m sounding incredibly stupid to you guys, so let me clear up one thing:  I have nothing wrong with schools, not really anyway.  I’m just saying that in my personal experience and opinion, children who are dedicated to learning what they are being thought will learn 5 times faster than someone who isn’t, and they’ll hold onto it for life.

Why would someone want to learn something that appears to have no relevance to their life?  Children aren't going to understand the point of learning about history, English, math, etc. at a very young age (I know I sure didn't), and by the time they do understand, they'll be very far behind those who went through public schooling.

[Gabu]

I don’t understand why it matters when they learn.  They can learn when they need to, or want to.  If they don’t understand the relevance of it, then they obviously don’t need it yet.  I think it’s a much more enjoyable experience to teach somebody something when they want to learn it.

It took me 14 years to learn all of the math that I know today and there is still more that I could learn if I so chose.  Imagine what would happen if I decided I wanted to go into physics right now but had never even learned the basics of arithmetic.  You can't just say "okay, now I will learn this" and then have it happen.  Many, many things take years to cover, and if a person hasn't even learned the basics for something that he or she wants to master after coming to an awareness about the big picture in life, it can hardly be imagined that that person could ever compete with one who started at an early age.

Here's a question: what is the problem with public schools as they are today?

[Gabu]

How is it any harder to go to School and than to go to the Library?

Schools are a structured environment in which students are taught everything that they need to know about a subject and in which a student can reasonably expect to obtain a well-rounded base of knowledge that can then be specialized once the person gets to college.

A library, on the other hand, is just a disorganized array of information, and the chance of a student getting a fully adequate, well-rounded base of knowledge through independent study are much more slim.

[Gabu]

That said, how much math do you know?  I’m just curious.

Multivariable calculus, a fair bit of linear algebra, a lot of set theory... it's true that the basics of arithmetic are not very hard, but I really can't see someone getting up to the higher stuff in a matter of weeks.  At any rate, you're only considering your own experience, and it sounds like you're an abnormally fast learner, statistically speaking.  Many people have a much more difficult time grasping what we may consider basic knowledge.

Think about it:  If they’re too lazy to learn anything when they’re 12, then I believe they’ll probably be too lazy to work when they’re 32.

If it weren't for the fact that school was mandatory, I would probably have never learned a thing by age 12.  All I wanted to do at that age was play video games and do stuff with friends.  Learning things was the last thing on my mind.

You can’t just say “okay, now I want to go into this field” and have it happen, either.  Everything I love today sparks from interests that I had 5 years ago.  If I just decided I want to do _______ I don’t think I’d really love working everyday.  I have to love what I’m doing, or I don’t really see a purpose in doing it.

School up to grade 12 gives you a solid base of knowledge and ability in pretty well any field.  Being able to transition into college-level mathematics is a lot easier if you know algebra than if you don't even know arithmetic.  Or, being able to learn the intricacies of WWII in a detailed course on it is a lot easier if you know the general overview of what went on.  It would take a very long time to go into many fields if you didn't have that base that school provides.  What you're suggesting is for students to figure out at a very young age exactly what they want to do and then to put all of their eggs in that one basket.  This seems very dangerous, at best, even ignoring the issues regarding whether or not a young child could even do that.

[Gabu]

Well, anything they need in that “well-rounded base of knowledge” they will encounter in real life.  School is supposed to set you up for real life, while college secures your future.  We aren’t doing anything to colleges, and if school sets you up for RL, then you will sooner or later encounter everything you really need to know for RL before the age of 12.

Schools give you what you need to know to gain entry into colleges.  If you don't learn what you are supposed to learn in high school, you won't have a hope of survival in college.

I've heard so many times that you don't need what you learn after grade 8 in most jobs, but I've found it to be quite surprising how many times I've found that knowledge to be most helpful.

[Gabu]

I’m sorry, I’m tired.  You’re right, that would be pretty dumb   Okay, this is what we’d do instead:

Bill is a professional scientist.  Jessica would like to learn Chemistry (Bill specializes in that and has a professional lab built for it.)  Bill comes to the Library as a “field expert.”  Jessica meets Bill and he makes an appointment to show her his lab.  He can not only teach you Chemistry, but he can also help her get work in the field.

I’m getting tired, fast.  Can
A) Everyone slow down just a little.  I appreciate the questions, but you aren’t going to change my mind.  I’m convinced people don’t need Public School to have a well educated society.
B) Daniel and Dubya help me out?

It seems to me that what you're suggesting is basically just a public school that isn't mandatory.  I can't see how this resembles a library anymore, at least in the sense of what one might expect a library to be.

[Gabu]

So, let me get this straight...

Some of the most exceptional people in history, compared to your average person, performed fine without public schooling.

Therefore, everyone will perform fine without public schooling.

I'm sorry, but not even using the most convoluted logic does this follow.  It's because those people were exceptional that they were fine without public schooling.  You're seriously confusing cause and effect here.  Why do you seem to be completely ignoring the average person, instead choosing to focus on the people who would excel no matter what their surroundings?

Would it not be best for education that people have as much choice as possible?