Secret Ballot Procedure Bill

[Gabu]

As introduced by Sen. MasterJedi:

Secret Ballot Procedure Bill

Section 1

1. During any federal election, a registered voter may choose to submit their ballot or absentee ballot in secret.  This is considered an optional alternative form of voting to a public ballot.  The method of vote submission is outlined in Section 2, Clause 4 below.

2. All secret ballots must satisfy all clauses outlined in Section 1 of the Omnibus Election System, Procedure and Certification Act.

3. No registered voter may vote both publicly and secretly in the same election.  If this occurs, the Secretary of Forum Affairs will discount both votes.

Section 2

1. For the purposes of counting and validating secret ballots, an Electoral Committee will be assembled by no later than a week before the election is scheduled to begin.

2. The Committee will be comprised of three members, consisting of the Secretary and Deputy Secretary of Forum Affairs, and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

3. In the event that any of the office holders listed either are themselves candidates in the election or are not present to fulfill their duty, those in the aforementioned situation shall be replaced by the highest office holder in the following list who is not a candidate present in the election and who is present to fulfill the duty:

Senior Associate Justice
Junior Associate Justice
Vice President
President Pro Tempore
Secretary of State
Attorney General
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of the Treasury
1A Senator
1B Senator
2A Senator
2B Senator
3A Senator
3B Senator
4A Senator
4B Senator
5A Senator
5B Senator

4. Identical copies of all secret ballots will be submitted for counting by the voter to each of the three members of the Committee in the form of a personal message.

5. Once voting has officially ended, the Committee will convene in a private and suitable manner.  Each member will ensure that their own collected ballots are identical to the corresponding ballots collected by the other two members.

6. In the event that any one of the three copies of a ballot does not match the corresponding copies, the ballot will be discounted.

7. All legitimate ballots will then be incorporated into the vote count and subsequent certification for the relevant election.

8. Once the election has been certified, the Committee will disband.

[Gabu]

I think the most obvious change to be made is that "A" and "B" senators no longer exist... unless anyone has any objects, I'll just change "A" senators to be regional senators and "B" senators to be district senators.

[Gabu]

NOTE TO GABU, GABU LOOK HERE!!!!!!

Don't forget the 2 amendments I introcued for Joe Republic.

GABU LOOK HERE, GABU LOOK HERE!!!!!!

NOTE TO MASTERJEDI, MASTERJEDI LOOK HERE!!!!!!

Amendments now need 24 hours of debate time.

MASTERJEDI LOOK HERE, MASTERJEDI LOOK HERE!!!!!!

[Gabu]

Just didn't want you to miss them Gabu, sometimes you do that!

I'm going to be very glad when my term as PPT expires and someone else gets to be subjected to this.

[Gabu]

Just didn't want you to miss them Gabu, sometimes you do that!

I'm going to be very glad when my term as PPT expires and someone else gets to be subjected to this.

Oh you know you'll run for another round of it.

Actually, I can't; a PPT can only hold that office for eight consecutive months, and since I started in January, August will be my last month.

With regards to the bill in question, I would like to agree with those who feel that it's not a major issue, but personally, I'm disgusted at the way that (ahem) certain people conduct themselves with regards to people who vote in a way that they disapprove of.  I really think that things would be more appealing for new people (and older people alike) if there was an option to enable oneself to vote without having to incur the wrath of (ahem) certain people because you voted in an incorrect way.

Obviously this would leave things open to possible abuse, but honestly, do you guys want to repeal the secret ballot in America?  No?  Then why is it such a big deal there?  If we can establish enough checks on things (such as having one person from each branch of government getting a copy of the votes), it shouldn't be a problem, and it would be a remedy for what I consider to be quite a serious issue that undermines the integrity of democracy in which everyone is free to vote for whom they want.

[Gabu]

As there has been no debate on the amendments proposed, I hereby call them to a vote:

1. In Section 2, Clause 3, the list of eligible committee members is amended to remove the PPT and all senators as they are listed, and replace them as follows:
* District 1 senator
* District 2 senator
* District 3 senator
* District 4 senator
* District 5 senator
* Mideast Regional senator
* Midwest Regional senator
* Northeast Regional senator
* Pacific Regional senator
* Southeast Regional senator

2. Of the three original committee members, the Deputy SoFA is replaced by the Senate PPT.

All senators in favor, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

---

Aye, aye.

[Gabu]

With five votes in favor to none against, and with only nine senators, both amendments have passed.

The new version of the bill is as follows:

Secret Ballot Procedure Bill

Section 1

1. During any federal election, a registered voter may choose to submit their ballot or absentee ballot in secret.  This is considered an optional alternative form of voting to a public ballot.  The method of vote submission is outlined in Section 2, Clause 4 below.

2. All secret ballots must satisfy all clauses outlined in Section 1 of the Omnibus Election System, Procedure and Certification Act.

3. No registered voter may vote both publicly and secretly in the same election.  If this occurs, the Secretary of Forum Affairs will discount both votes.

Section 2

1. For the purposes of counting and validating secret ballots, an Electoral Committee will be assembled by no later than a week before the election is scheduled to begin.

2. The Committee will be comprised of three members, consisting of the Secretary of Forum Affairs, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate.

3. In the event that any of the office holders listed either are themselves candidates in the election or are not present to fulfill their duty, those in the aforementioned situation shall be replaced by the highest office holder in the following list who is not a candidate present in the election and who is present to fulfill the duty:

Senior Associate Justice
Junior Associate Justice
Vice President
Secretary of State
Attorney General
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of the Treasury
District 1 senator
District 2 senator
District 3 senator
District 4 senator
District 5 senator
Mideast Regional senator
Midwest Regional senator
Northeast Regional senator
Pacific Regional senator
Southeast Regional senator

4. Identical copies of all secret ballots will be submitted for counting by the voter to each of the three members of the Committee in the form of a personal message.

5. Once voting has officially ended, the Committee will convene in a private and suitable manner.  Each member will ensure that their own collected ballots are identical to the corresponding ballots collected by the other two members.

6. In the event that any one of the three copies of a ballot does not match the corresponding copies, the ballot will be discounted.

7. All legitimate ballots will then be incorporated into the vote count and subsequent certification for the relevant election.

8. Once the election has been certified, the Committee will disband.

[Gabu]

24 hours have passed with no debate on Sam's amendment, so I hereby call it to a vote:

2. The Committee will be comprised of three members, consisting of the Secretary of Forum Affairs, the Vice President, and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate.

3. In the event that any of the office holders listed either are themselves candidates in the election or are not present to fulfill their duty, those in the aforementioned situation shall be replaced by the highest office holder in the following list who is not a candidate present in the election and who is present to fulfill the duty:

Secretary of State
Attorney General
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of the Treasury
District 1 senator
District 2 senator
District 3 senator
District 4 senator
District 5 senator
Mideast Regional senator
Midwest Regional senator
Northeast Regional senator
Pacific Regional senator
Southeast Regional senator

All senators in favor, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

---

Aye.  I can see his rationale and I personally think it makes sense.

[Gabu]

With five votes in favor to one against, and with one abstaining, Sam Spade's amendment has passed.

I'd also like to motion for a vote on this amendment.

Section 9

Corruption, electoral fraud, the changing of votes, and tampering with votes in any way, is hereby criminalized in Atlasia. All members of the said committee who are found guilty of any of these charges will have their voting rights striped for a maximum of one year. Trials will be conducted according to the provisions set in place by the Omnibus Criminal Law Act.

That amendment still needs 24 hours of debate time.

[Gabu]

I'd like to propose an amendment on the chain of command list:

Secretary of State
Attorney General
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of the Treasury
District 4 senator
District 1 senator
District 2 senator
District 3 senator
District 5 senator
Southeast Regional senator
Mideast Regional senator
Midwest Regional senator
Northeast Regional senator
Pacific Regional senator

Under the power granted to me in Article 4, Section 2, Clause 4 of the Official Senate Procedural Resolution, I remove this amendment from consideration on the grounds that it is frivolous (and a blatant filibuster attempt).

[Gabu]

I hereby open voting on this amendment:

Section 9

Corruption, electoral fraud, the changing of votes, and tampering with votes in any way, is hereby criminalized in Atlasia. All members of the said committee who are found guilty of any of these charges will have their voting rights striped for a maximum of one year. Trials will be conducted according to the provisions set in place by the Omnibus Criminal Law Act.

All senators in favor, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

---

Aye.

[Gabu]

I have one more amendment:

Section 10

Once a secret ballot is submitted to the three electoral comission members the Secretary of Forum Affairs shall, as soon as possible, post this ballot in the official voting booth for that election. This ballot must not include the name of the voter or any definitive markings that could compromise the anonymity of the said secret voter.  

Er, I must agree with others that this amendment would kind of defeat the purpose of this entire bill.  The point of secret voting is to make it impossible or at least harder for people to vote tactically, and instead to simply vote for who they want to win.

[Gabu]

Let's not forget that this secret ballot measure is optional.  So for the people who still want to vote publicly, they're more than welcome to do so.  People can still keep running totals of those.

Yeah but those totals are completely wrong though and wouldn't actually count towards any type of result. We would have no better idea of who won than if we just had an entirely secret ballot election. Atlasia is about fun, first and foremost, I wouldn't be here if I didn't have fun and laugh and did stuff that I liked to do. This bill will take away from the fun of watching the results come in and will stifle the debates, dicussions and commentary that makes elections so great. Without this then elections would be boring and without elections then the whole Atlasian experience, for me, would be alot worse and lot less fun and very uninteresting.

Why would it make it uninteresting to not know until the last minute who won?  As the public votes come in, everyone could speculate in great detail about what the secret ballots are, try to guess how they will turn out, and everyone will wait with bated breath to see whether or not the trends in the public voting will continue in the secret voting or if someone has captured most of entire secret vote and has run away with the election.

Personally, I think that it would have the potential to make things more exciting, not uninteresting.

[Gabu]

I'd like to make this into an amendment:

You know, if we do pass this thing, we should also order the creation of a new account that certain members of the government have access to where all the votes are sent to. Also, to prevent fraud, let's require every person who has sent in a ballot to notify that they have voted in a thread created by the SoFA so when the ballots are counted we can check to see if there where any votes deleted from the count.

Gabu, can you please tell me the current state of this bill after all the amendments so I can see what needs to be changed?

Sure thing... also, come to think of it, the current amendment only needs one more "aye" vote to pass and you haven't voted yet.  Stop stalling!

[Gabu]

With five votes in favor to none against, and with only nine senators present, Colin's first amendment has passed.

Why hasn't there been voting on my amendment?

Because all it did was shift the District 4 and Southeast senators to the top of the succession list.  It was a completely pointless amendment, so I tossed it out, as I'm allowed to do.  It was also a blatant filibuster attempt, but that's an entirely different story that played no part in my throwing it out.

You had ample time to challenge my throwing it out, but you didn't do anything, so my action stands.

[Gabu]

The current version of this bill is as follows:

Secret Ballot Procedure Bill

Section 1

1. During any federal election, a registered voter may choose to submit their ballot or absentee ballot in secret.  This is considered an optional alternative form of voting to a public ballot.  The method of vote submission is outlined in Section 2, Clause 4 below.

2. All secret ballots must satisfy all clauses outlined in Section 1 of the Omnibus Election System, Procedure and Certification Act.

3. No registered voter may vote both publicly and secretly in the same election.  If this occurs, the Secretary of Forum Affairs will discount both votes.

Section 2

1. For the purposes of counting and validating secret ballots, an Electoral Committee will be assembled by no later than a week before the election is scheduled to begin.

2. The Committee will be comprised of three members, consisting of the Secretary of Forum Affairs, the Vice President, and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate.

3. In the event that any of the office holders listed either are themselves candidates in the election or are not present to fulfill their duty, those in the aforementioned situation shall be replaced by the highest office holder in the following list who is not a candidate present in the election and who is present to fulfill the duty:

Secretary of State
Attorney General
Secretary of Defense
Secretary of the Treasury
District 1 senator
District 2 senator
District 3 senator
District 4 senator
District 5 senator
Mideast Regional senator
Midwest Regional senator
Northeast Regional senator
Pacific Regional senator
Southeast Regional senator

4. Identical copies of all secret ballots will be submitted for counting by the voter to each of the three members of the Committee in the form of a personal message.

5. Once voting has officially ended, the Committee will convene in a private and suitable manner.  Each member will ensure that their own collected ballots are identical to the corresponding ballots collected by the other two members.

6. In the event that any one of the three copies of a ballot does not match the corresponding copies, the ballot will be discounted.

7. All legitimate ballots will then be incorporated into the vote count and subsequent certification for the relevant election.

8. Once the election has been certified, the Committee will disband.

9. Corruption, electoral fraud, the changing of votes, and tampering with votes in any way, is hereby criminalized in Atlasia. All members of the said committee who are found guilty of any of these charges will have their voting rights striped for a maximum of one year. Trials will be conducted according to the provisions set in place by the Omnibus Criminal Law Act.

[Gabu]

Okay, I hereby open voting on this amendment:

I have one more amendment:

Section 10

Once a secret ballot is submitted to the three electoral comission members the Secretary of Forum Affairs shall, as soon as possible, post this ballot in the official voting booth for that election. This ballot must not include the name of the voter or any definitive markings that could compromise the anonymity of the said secret voter.  

All senators in favor, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

[Gabu]

I'm going to have to vote nay, for the reasons I've already said in this thread.

[Gabu]

With four against to one in favor, and with two abstaining, and with only eight senators present, this amendment has failed.

[Gabu]

It has been 24 hours and 7 minutes since debate on this amendment occured (a.k.a. there was no debate).  I motion for a recount vote!

Per the Official Senate Procedural Resolution, each individual amendment must be given its own slot of 24 hours' debate time, so the debate time for yours starts immediately following the failure of the previous amendment.  The time that the previous amendment was being debated doesn't count.

[Gabu]

The current bill would create a system that would be used by 10 people on average and there would be a high chance that 9 of those votes would be invalid.

Er, why?

I can guarantee you 100% of the tactical voters that vote between 11:50-11:59PM we are trying to stop would not use this system of sending three indectical personal messages as it takes too long.

So?  That isn't the point; the point is that tactical voters won't know who to vote for because they won't know the current results.  If even one person casts a secret ballot, it could throw a giant monkey wrench into the plans of tactical voters.

That brings me to my next point, if a voter that does use the system puts a on two messages but not on the third have his vote invalid for not sending in an identical message?

This is mainly a non-issue because of the next comment...

Would most voters have the time to send 3 messages?  Would any of our members not as active in the fantasy board who vote even use the system?  They make up 3/4th the vote and if they don't use it then it is a worthless project.  What if flood controls prevent 3 messages to be sent in such a quick pace?  How will we know all 3 votes were the same? 

See, the thing is that you don't need to make three messages.  You just make one message and send it to three people.  You can specify as many recipients as you want in the "To" box by separating their names with commas, so you don't need to worry about one of them being different because you're only sending one.  It seems to me that it would be easy enough to inform people of this fact.  You could even provide something in the official voting booth that the people can just copy and paste into the "To" box to facilitate the laziest of the lazy.

Regarding the issue you raise about the smiley face, I don't see why it would hurt things to have an amendment specifying what constitutes a different vote.  It seems clear to me that adding a smiley face does not make the vote different and that the only thing that would be different is if the people voted for are actually different.  I don't think this would be a big issue for the reason above, but it's probably a good idea anyway.

[Gabu]

I would like to motion for a vote on King's amendment so it can be defeated voted on.

But it seems to have had minimal debate.

Yes, I would count the exchange between Joe Republic, King, and I as debate on it, so we need to wait until 24 hours has expired since the last bit of debate.

Also, King, I'm wondering if you want the entire thing voted on as one monolithic amendment or if you want it done section by section?  Personally, I would prefer the latter, as I like section 4 of part (a), but don't like the other sections.

[Gabu]

Yes, I would count the exchange between Joe Republic, King, and I as debate on it, so we need to wait until 24 hours has expired since the last bit of debate.

Not to be picky, but I was under the impression that any post by a Senator counts for the 24-hour rule. (I may be wrong, as the Procedural Resolution is quite complex, and I haven't mastered the whole thing yet.)

It's really a judgement call left up to the PPT.  For example, this post is not debate on the issue, so it doesn't count.

Personally, I think that the last actual piece of debate was my post to King, so... I guess we haven't had any debate for 24 hours.

In that case, I hereby open voting on the following amendments.  I've split up King's giant amendment of section 2 because I consider the topics of the three sections in the replacement to be divorced enough to warrant separate votes.

Replacements for section 2:

#1:

Section 2

1.  Secret ballot votes shall be cast using the SMF Private Messaging (PM) system to a single non-posting account created by the Secretary of Forum Affairs.

2.  The password for this account shall be changed after every general election and then be distributed to the current holders of the offices of Secretary of Forum Affairs, Deputy Secretary of Forum Affairs, and a delegate from the Senate who will serve as the Committee on Private Voting to count such votes. The Senate delegate shall be selected by the President Pro Tempore of the Senate or elected by a Senate vote if the President Pro Tempore is not available.

3.  If a special election is called, the Committee on Private Voting from the previous election shall administer the secret ballot votes for the special election.

#2:

Section 3

To prevent fraud in the counting of secret ballots, persons who opt to use the secret ballot shall be required to (a) send a single copy of the ballot to the official PM account and (b) post a statement in an official secret ballot signature thread created by one of the secret voting overseers in which they give a signature as notification of their secret ballot vote. If a voter fails to post their signature in the thread before voting closes, their vote shall not be disqualified from counting.

#3:

Section 4

1.  Once an election has ended, the Committee must release a list of all voters who have cast a secret ballot and whether their votes are valid or invalid.

2.  The list of invalid votes must include a reason why each vote was disqualified.

3.  If a voter who has given signature is not listed and a record of the vote can be obtained in the Inbox of the private voting account, the vote shall be legally counted.  The election shall not be certified until such votes have been counted.

4(a).  If a voter who has given signature is not listed and a record of the vote cannot be obtained, the voter shall be granted the right to file a civil case against the members of the Committee for voting fraud.

4(b).  If five or more voters who have given signature are not listed and a record of the votes cannot be obtained, the Attorney General shall be granted the right to file a criminal case against the members of the Committee for voting fraud.

4(c).  If a voter is found responsible for either offense of 4(a) or 4(b), the Attorney General shall be granted the right to file a criminal case against the voter for legal fraud.

Addition:

(b). The clause "The method of vote submission is outlined in Section 2, Clause 4 below." in Section 1, Clause 1 shall be removed.

All senators in favor, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

[Gabu]

Isn't this session over with as of tomorrow afternoon?  Or am I confused.

Yes, it is.  We're definitely going to run out of time for this bill and the other one still waiting for a vote.

[Gabu]

Nay to the first two, Aye on the last two.

For anyone voting "Aye" on the first two, I have to ask if you've read my exchange with King, in which I explain why the single PM account is entirely unnecessary.