How California is turning the rest of the West blue (Atlas red)

[hopper]

No Colorado is different from California on the issue of guns though. Colorado is a lot more moderate economically where as California is more liberal. I don't know where Nevada is on social issues but economically it is pretty centrist from my viewpoint. NV has split control of US House and US Senate Delegation between R's and D's. The Governor is a Republican and the Democrats control the state legislature.

[hopper]

Colorado is a lot more moderate economically where as California is more liberal.

In case you haven't noticed, D=moderate economically.

In Colorado I'm sure the D's are moderate  there economically but California they are liberal on economic issues. California is like 44th in job creation per Gallup "State of the States" stats and is 48th on Business Climate per the "Tax Foundation". Colorado is 18th in Business Climate per the "Tax Foundation". Don't have job creation stats off-hand for CO though.

[hopper]

Sort of mixed stuff here. I doubt it will have much of an effect in Idaho or Washington where the states are pretty safe on a Presidential level, however the effect on Nevada or Colorado is huge.

Actually you have to understand that people of different mentalities move to different states. Olds who are more liberal and into gambling might move to Nevada. Also those who serve them by working in the service industry, making the state atlas red. On the other hand Arizona attracts conservative retirees who don't like Mexicans but like golf. Idaho also attracts those who are already conservative or racists who want to get away from Mexicans.

Do you think that all the conservatives who migrate there move there because they hate Mexicans? I have no idea if this is true but I would think its more of a democratic conspiracy than an actual fact. I don't think they dislike Mexicans in general, but I think they don't like the illegal Mexicans crossing the border with our broken immigration system.

Many don't like the fact that half of SoCal is Hispanic now, most of them being native born citizens. Doesn't matter to these folks, who will use the illegals argument to hide their hate.

So California republicans are racist, yet another race-blaming game.

Nowhere did I make a blanket statement that California Republicans are racist. It's a big state with a lot of Republicans. I am just saying that many conservatives who move to places like Arizona and Idaho especially are racist. The racists in California are more prone to leave the state due to the states demographics. I know you and bbag have a hard time with complexity, but come on now.

OK, so some republicans are racist, makes sense. I'm pretty sure that people who leave California will leave because of family reasons, jobs, or in conservative cases where people want to flee the ridiculously high taxes and anti-business laws, etc. . Think about this for a second, how often would a person flee a state just because of a states non-whiteness? Or the persons hate for non-whiteness? I thank you for making your point, but I just don't buy into it. The race issue and the racist image that democrats give republicans is one reason why I am distancing myself from the party, with the already multiple things I disagree within the party.

Also who said I couldn't handle complexity? I've written paragraphs on trend threads and in some other threads, barfbag on the other hand keeps it sweet and simple (not a bad thing).

Meh, just go to the City Data forums to find out how many people just bitch and moan about Southern California becoming majority non-white. They don't care that the crime rate in Los Angeles has more than halved since the early 90's. They think things are getting worse because there are more brown people around, and all crime statistics are made up, because more brown people must mean more crime in their heads.

Of course this is not a trend that is just restricted to California.  You have white flight going on all around the country. Case in point, the county you apparently live in and derived your username from. The segregation in the Milwaukee area is just insane to see. Unfortunately for the racists in Southern California, there is really no place to go. Even the wealthy cities like Walnut, with a median household income of more than $100,000 is 63% Asian and so is Diamond Bar, which has a median household income of about $90,000. Even a place like La Mirada, which voted for Mccain and just barely for Obama in 2012 is plurality Hispanic while having a median household income of about $80,000. Where are the racists to go, if not Idaho? Southern OC perhaps, but even those areas are getting "invaded" by Asians these days.

Why are you making about household income and race when It comes to fleeing CA?Maybe some whites don't like minorities making up a big part of the neighborhood population but I think its the way CA taxes that makes the majority of whites leave the state.

[hopper]

Colorado is a lot more moderate economically where as California is more liberal.

In case you haven't noticed, D=moderate economically.

In Colorado I'm sure the D's are moderate  there economically but California they are liberal on economic issues. California is like 44th in job creation per Gallup "State of the States" stats and is 48th on Business Climate per the "Tax Foundation". Colorado is 18th in Business Climate per the "Tax Foundation". Don't have job creation stats off-hand for CO though.

Haha, you think that 'job creation' is caused by right-wing economics, don't you?

Well "The Dakotas" have the highest job creation right now and both states have Republican Governors. I'll give you Minnesota and Maryland have high job creation numbers too and they both have D Governors but I was just comparing CA to the rest of the nation in terms of job creation.

[hopper]

Yes and high taxes are what cause high unemployment and a failing economy.

You do realize California's economy is doing just fine, don't you? It just doesn't favor low skill manufacturing and other things that can be done in low cost states. High tech companies and high tech manufacturing, along with the entertainment industry and other industries dependent on location (like the trade industry) are doing just fine. And it's not high taxes that cause a high cost of living. If I move back to California, it will be higher rent/mortgage that will cause a higher cost of living as opposed to taxes. And I would have a 6 figure income.....

California's unemployment rate was about 3% higher than the U.S. in late 2011, when we were undergoing some brutal austerity measures. In 2012, voters approved higher sales taxes and a millionaire's tax. Now our books are balanced and our economy is on a tear. We're adding jobs, and they're actually good, high-paying jobs as opposed to the low-income service jobs other states are adding. We're only ~1.5% higher than the national average now, and making good progress on closing that gap further.

California's unemployment rate dropped from a high of 12%+ down to 8.7%. That's not as good as Colorado percentage-wise, but we've been adding jobs at a faster pace.

I'm glad to hear that. Spending must be down too.

Brown reversed many of the deep cuts to education and other programs after the tax passed. That was the point. California was given the choice between austerity and paying an extra 0.25% on purchases. We chose the latter, because education is crucial to the high-tech economy of the state.

California is one state who could afford a millionaire tax due to all of the millionaires in the state. Other than them, I'd be hard pressed to find a state where such a policy would be suitable.

The United States could. Maybe we should have a millionaire's tax at the federal level?

Well no other states could afford it because states which have already tried it have lost millionaires, which means they lost job creators, which means jobs were lost. Millionaires migrated from New York to New Jersey and from Maryland to Virginia in order to avoid this. Doing it at the federal level is one thing, but again I don't know anyone who can't get around paying taxes due to loopholes, technicalities, and write offs. It's basically more trouble than it's worth.

And Virginia and New Jersey will soon probably follow. This isn't about punishing success as it is passing the bills to those who can afford to pay them. Maybe "You didn't build that" went too far but the point is that they were given the opportunity to find their niche and focus on it. That's the way people in California see it, too. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any 6-figure computer scientists in San Francisco  or 7-figure actors in Los Angeles. That's the reason houses are so expensive there. Its because everyone wants to more there and only the most educated or unique people can get jobs there and those people who get jobs there want to have nice things and places to live.

Maybe there is a neoliberal alternative to this model but we just haven't seen one yet that can survive free of total dependence on irresponsible and short term growth industries. Something tells me that without Coal and Oil, places like Texas would be more like Arkansas or Tennessee and places like the Dakotas would either be like Nebraska or Minnesota/Iowa. I actually wonder what California or New York would be like if in the late 19th century, the huge oil deposits where there instead of Texas and North Dakota.  

Why would Virginia pass a millionares tax? Its books are pretty balanced. New Jersey: Well I live there so yes if we get a D Governor(besides Sweeney)after Christie the legislature might pass a millionares tax. Sweeney is a Blue Dog Dem so even if Sweeney is still Senate President in 2017 or 2018 it may be a little hard to get a millionares tax past him.

Why is it passing bills to who can afford them? If a state can balance their books why raise taxes just for the sake of raising taxes on wealthy people?

[hopper]

Yes and high taxes are what cause high unemployment and a failing economy.

You do realize California's economy is doing just fine, don't you? It just doesn't favor low skill manufacturing and other things that can be done in low cost states. High tech companies and high tech manufacturing, along with the entertainment industry and other industries dependent on location (like the trade industry) are doing just fine. And it's not high taxes that cause a high cost of living. If I move back to California, it will be higher rent/mortgage that will cause a higher cost of living as opposed to taxes. And I would have a 6 figure income.....

California's unemployment rate was about 3% higher than the U.S. in late 2011, when we were undergoing some brutal austerity measures. In 2012, voters approved higher sales taxes and a millionaire's tax. Now our books are balanced and our economy is on a tear. We're adding jobs, and they're actually good, high-paying jobs as opposed to the low-income service jobs other states are adding. We're only ~1.5% higher than the national average now, and making good progress on closing that gap further.

California's unemployment rate dropped from a high of 12%+ down to 8.7%. That's not as good as Colorado percentage-wise, but we've been adding jobs at a faster pace.

I'm glad to hear that. Spending must be down too.

Brown reversed many of the deep cuts to education and other programs after the tax passed. That was the point. California was given the choice between austerity and paying an extra 0.25% on purchases. We chose the latter, because education is crucial to the high-tech economy of the state.

California is one state who could afford a millionaire tax due to all of the millionaires in the state. Other than them, I'd be hard pressed to find a state where such a policy would be suitable.

The United States could. Maybe we should have a millionaire's tax at the federal level?

Well no other states could afford it because states which have already tried it have lost millionaires, which means they lost job creators, which means jobs were lost. Millionaires migrated from New York to New Jersey and from Maryland to Virginia in order to avoid this. Doing it at the federal level is one thing, but again I don't know anyone who can't get around paying taxes due to loopholes, technicalities, and write offs. It's basically more trouble than it's worth.

And Virginia and New Jersey will soon probably follow. This isn't about punishing success as it is passing the bills to those who can afford to pay them. Maybe "You didn't build that" went too far but the point is that they were given the opportunity to find their niche and focus on it. That's the way people in California see it, too. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any 6-figure computer scientists in San Francisco  or 7-figure actors in Los Angeles. That's the reason houses are so expensive there. Its because everyone wants to more there and only the most educated or unique people can get jobs there and those people who get jobs there want to have nice things and places to live.

Maybe there is a neoliberal alternative to this model but we just haven't seen one yet that can survive free of total dependence on irresponsible and short term growth industries. Something tells me that without Coal and Oil, places like Texas would be more like Arkansas or Tennessee and places like the Dakotas would either be like Nebraska or Minnesota/Iowa. I actually wonder what California or New York would be like if in the late 19th century, the huge oil deposits where there instead of Texas and North Dakota. 

Why would Virginia pass a millionares tax? Its books are pretty balanced. New Jersey: Well I live there so yes if we get a D Governor(besides Sweeney)after Christie the legislature might pass a millionares tax. Sweeney is a Blue Dog Dem so even if Sweeney is still Senate President in 2017 or 2018 it may be a little hard to get a millionares tax past him.

Why is it passing bills to who can afford them? If a state can balance their books why raise taxes just for the sake of raising taxes on wealthy people?

To make it easier on everyone else who to live off of a limited income. If you have an effectively unlimited income, you won't be hurting if you are missing a few hundred from each paycheck (or a few thousands from each dividend).

I just don't believe in wealth distribution just for the heck of it.

[hopper]

Colorado is a lot more moderate economically where as California is more liberal.

In case you haven't noticed, D=moderate economically.

In Colorado I'm sure the D's are moderate  there economically but California they are liberal on economic issues. California is like 44th in job creation per Gallup "State of the States" stats and is 48th on Business Climate per the "Tax Foundation". Colorado is 18th in Business Climate per the "Tax Foundation". Don't have job creation stats off-hand for CO though.

Not many California residents are "liberal on economic issues". Gg.

Well 2 examples: Why won't they let residents  crops grow? I mean they turn off hoses just so a little critter can survive? This issue was brought up a couple times apiece in 2009 and 2010: During the 2010 US Senate Race and the ObamaCare debate. Didn't then ex-rep. Dennis Cardoza make a deal or something that if he voted yes on "ObamaCare" that the hose would be turned on?

Why do voters approve of a millionares tax and a yes vote to borrow for education funding on a voter referendum? Phil Mickelson's(a famous golfer) tax rate is 63% when combining state and US taxes. Isn't that a little crazy?  Tiger Woods used to live in CA but he doesn't live there anymore. He lives in FL now. Its the way CA taxes that drives people out of the state.

[hopper]

Why do voters approve of a millionares tax and a yes vote to borrow for education funding on a voter referendum? Phil Mickelson's(a famous golfer) tax rate is 63% when combining state and US taxes. Isn't that a little crazy?

That's not remotely crazy. What's crazy is the money he earns for playing golf while millions of real workers are struggling to stay afloat.

See that's the free market for you that's what they get paid I say good for them  because that's their market value. I'm low income myself I don't feel like the rich owe me anything. Michael Jordan and Karl Malone made millions during their basketball careers I say good for they should enjoy their money.

You should keep in mind very few people have that skill to be a professional sports player. That's why they get paid that money because that's their gif that they have. What are real workers? Everybody has a special skill that they have to work in a certain profession. One could be to play a sport the other could be to be a doctor.