Interesting poll of Irish Catholics reveals widespread disagreement with Church.

[patrick1]

Maybe its just a regional thing, but in my experience almost everyone raised Catholic who doesn't line up well with the church's official teachings still claims to be Catholic, while Baptists and other right wing Christian groups are more likely to abandon their labels.

The fact that you're considering all other Christians to be "Baptists and other right wing Christian groups" (well that and the fact that you are talking about all Baptists as right wing), shows this is a regional thing, perhaps caused by tribalism. And in fact actually kind of contrasts with my point about the Midwest well, since Catholics in the Midwest are not the predominant group resulting in the church being intertwined in the culture (like in Ireland) or so uncommon that they are a notably rare and separate group (as in the South), they are a fairly generic group in the Midwest.

I should also point out that mixed marriages here are extremely common, and if one of your parents and half your family wasn't Catholic, you won't feel a large connection to the church, even if you were confirmed in it.

BRTD, one thing you dont seem to acknowledge about the dreaded state of Catholics staying that way in NI is that the same thing conversely is correct for the Protestant community.  1640 is in the mind of many more than some doctrine.  Sectarianism has ruled the day for centuries.  Protestants and Catholics would be set in their ways of history, even if they dont believe any of it at all.

[patrick1]

Well yeah, I think that's pretty silly too.

History is silly? Misguided, also. Over a million people sign up for the Ulster Solemn Covenant, probably not silly- Serious business. When Ian is bellowing out, Never!

The Shankill butchers were "Protestants" but I dont think they went to many revivals, do you?
Identifying with some vague community and not really adhering is not unique to the papist.

[patrick1]

patrick, if you couldn't tell by what I was saying about Jews offended by conversion in the presidential forum that I'm not exactly a fan of "hereditary religion" at all. This no doubt has a lot to do by the fact that I'm in a sort of "tradition" that virtually no adult alive today was born into and is basically all converts (like what percentage of people at my church do you think was born into any type of neocharismatic church? I doubt it's even 20%.) My big issue is in the US it is virtually only Catholics that act this way, and like I stated before, it can actually be pretty offensive to some people.

I remember some article from some newsmagazine or whatever where the author was sort of jokingly going over how she's the only one from her generation of her family who still identifies as Catholic and she barely is, the rest of her siblings became Episcopalian, evangelical and agnostic. Now in a case like that I just think it's kind of a dick thing to basically tell the other siblings that they are Catholic no matter what they think or call themselves today.

I went to a nice Mass at St Pats Cathedral last week, and even though I do not care for the new translation to the missal, I was given a sense of peace and happiness.  Yet, Different denominations should always strive for truth and common ground. So Sectarianism of any kind has to stop.  The RCC does not care about popular opinion much so I dont think they will change how they count on your account.

[patrick1]

Ending sectarianism would mean stopping discrimination, murder and violence. These are things that have been largely overcome in the last ten years, despite the Atlas' still dwelling.

It is policy to count everyone who has been baptised. It is a useless exercise to keep tabs on anyone's whereabouts.

[patrick1]

First, nice graphs.

There has been sectarianism in most places, and notably against your brand of Christianity in England for several hundred years.  They fought and killed kings to preserve it.

I count among family Catholics, Jews, Atheist and Protestants. We've managed to get along and I wonder why you cant.

The record keeping is pretty irrelevant from a faith perspective.   Love God and his creation.

[patrick1]

afleitch, I appreciate the post. Ive spent some time in your nice corner of the world to know about sectarianism. It is rotten yet identity can be excellent. Ive sung Depeche Mode songs to Celtic more than any Church song.  

BRTD, dont get caught up in labels.