Arctic Ice Cap melting

[Hatman 🍁]

This is no laughing matter, guys. This is an actual serious issue that is effecting thousands of people, and will effect millions in the next century. Any ignorance (and indeed debate) of the subject will only make things worse.

[Hatman 🍁]

What is it with all these f'ing sh**tballs that don't know their basic physics.  Take a cup, fill it 1/2 with water, put 5 ice cubes in it, measure the water level, wait for the ice cubes to melt, and look where the water level is.

What happened?

Thats right folks, it DROPPED.  Yes, yes, yes, the myth is true, ice is less dense than water...

You're an idiot. Not all ice is in the oceans, dumbass.

[Hatman 🍁]

Dont deny that the sea level is rising, Richius, because it is. Just ask the folks living in the Mississippi delta or the good citizens of Tuvalu. Nations in the south pacific are scared sh!tless about Global warming (or climate change, if you will) because of the sea level rising, and they are aleady seeing the effects.

[Hatman 🍁]

Dont deny that the sea level is rising, Richius, because it is. Just ask the folks living in the Mississippi delta or the good citizens of Tuvalu. Nations in the south pacific are scared sh!tless about Global warming (or climate change, if you will) because of the sea level rising, and they are aleady seeing the effects.

I'm not exactly sure that we should change the entire industrial production society of the planet for the sake of the 11,500 residents of Tuvalu. 

I'm sorry, but if I have to make a choice between our current society and the continuence of Tuvalu, Tuvalu loses.

You've just described the biggest source of world problems. People just don't care. 

[Hatman 🍁]

Not about Tuvalu. I'm sure Australia would take them.

Shame on you. We're talking about a whole country here, traditions and cultures down the tube because we don't care about some far off country. Well it's that kind of ignorance that can piss people off and start wars.  Tuvalu may not stand much of a fight but if you "dont care" about the wrong countries there could be trouble.

[Hatman 🍁]

Dont deny that the sea level is rising, Richius, because it is. Just ask the folks living in the Mississippi delta or the good citizens of Tuvalu. Nations in the south pacific are scared sh!tless about Global warming (or climate change, if you will) because of the sea level rising, and they are aleady seeing the effects.

I'm not exactly sure that we should change the entire industrial production society of the planet for the sake of the 11,500 residents of Tuvalu. 

I'm sorry, but if I have to make a choice between our current society and the continuence of Tuvalu, Tuvalu loses.

You've just described the biggest source of world problems. People just don't care. 

Other sources of problems are people caring so much they accept anything the media or some guy in a labcoat tells them.

Just remember to take things with a grain of salt.

It's not just "some guy in a labcoat". The majority of scientists agree that climate change exists. Anyways, the only way things get done is when people care "too much".

[Hatman 🍁]

Not about Tuvalu. I'm sure Australia would take them.

Shame on you. We're talking about a whole country here, traditions and cultures down the tube because we don't care about some far off country. Well it's that kind of ignorance that can piss people off and start wars.  Tuvalu may not stand much of a fight but if you "dont care" about the wrong countries there could be trouble.

Oh, I feel shame. I'm almost crying right now as you tell me about a whole island's culture down the drain rather than going on a wild goose chase to solve a problem that may not be able to be solved.

You are missing the point. The issue is not just about Tuvalu. However, I would agree that the problem will never be solved, or it will just be band-aided and we will be in deep sh!t. 

[Hatman 🍁]

Dont deny that the sea level is rising, Richius, because it is. Just ask the folks living in the Mississippi delta or the good citizens of Tuvalu. Nations in the south pacific are scared sh!tless about Global warming (or climate change, if you will) because of the sea level rising, and they are aleady seeing the effects.

I'm not exactly sure that we should change the entire industrial production society of the planet for the sake of the 11,500 residents of Tuvalu. 

I'm sorry, but if I have to make a choice between our current society and the continuence of Tuvalu, Tuvalu loses.

You've just described the biggest source of world problems. People just don't care. 

No people care, but they look at the cost verses the benefit.   I'm not suggesting that the people of Tuvula be blockaded on the island while it waves crash over the island, but I am suggesting that it is not worth trillions of dollars to keep ten square miles above sea level.  To say that is it is, is foolish.  It is especially foolish if the the islands were periodically underwater during past warming periods.

Sorry, but I was in the third Johnstown Flood and think it folly to build on a flood plain.  This makes about as much sense!

Well, as I said- it is not just about Tuvalu. As for the flooplains, I know the city of Winnipeg is glad to have theirs.

[Hatman 🍁]

Dont deny that the sea level is rising, Richius, because it is. Just ask the folks living in the Mississippi delta or the good citizens of Tuvalu. Nations in the south pacific are scared sh!tless about Global warming (or climate change, if you will) because of the sea level rising, and they are aleady seeing the effects.

I'm not exactly sure that we should change the entire industrial production society of the planet for the sake of the 11,500 residents of Tuvalu. 

I'm sorry, but if I have to make a choice between our current society and the continuence of Tuvalu, Tuvalu loses.

You've just described the biggest source of world problems. People just don't care. 

No people care, but they look at the cost verses the benefit.   I'm not suggesting that the people of Tuvula be blockaded on the island while it waves crash over the island, but I am suggesting that it is not worth trillions of dollars to keep ten square miles above sea level.  To say that is it is, is foolish.  It is especially foolish if the the islands were periodically underwater during past warming periods.

Sorry, but I was in the third Johnstown Flood and think it folly to build on a flood plain.  This makes about as much sense!

Well, as I said- it is not just about Tuvalu. As for the flooplains, I know the city of Winnipeg is glad to have theirs.

So were the people of Johnstown, until the 20 foot wall rolled through at about 50 MPH.

I'm going to point something out.  when the temerature dropped in the 1300's, colonies in Greenland died out (I think they resorted to canabilism first) so that islands like those would gain territory.  Now, is it fair to them so that the Tuvalians could get more land.  The planet is not fair.

Also, right now, you are using fossel fuels, indirectly, to post on this site.  If you feel that you want to help Tuvalu, but your part; turn off your computer and keep it off.  Are you willing to make even that tiny scarifice to help?

How do you know our energy source is fossil fuels? It could be geneterated from a hydro-electric station in northern Quebec. But that's besides the point. The problem is not me, it's select corporations and the governments that fuel them.

[Hatman 🍁]

Hey, If by not using my computer I could sing handedly stop global warming, I would, but it is beyond mine, or really anyone's control at this point.

[Hatman 🍁]

Hey, If by not using my computer I could sing handedly stop global warming, I would, but it is beyond mine, or really anyone's control at this point.

We, the consumers, collectively do it.  If we didn't use the products whose manufacturing and use cause greenhouse gasses, it would no longer be profitable for the companies to produce them.

Yes, if it is a problem, you are part of the problem.  We, collectively, have made a choice, and one of the effects of that choice is that more greenhouse gasses have been produced.  You'll complain about it, but you are not willing to pay the price, changing your lifestyle, to do anything about it.

I would argue that there is nothing wrong about that choice, so long as you understand that this is the cost.

Again I say, it is not my fault personally. If there was anything I could do I would.

[Hatman 🍁]

Hey, If by not using my computer I could sing handedly stop global warming, I would, but it is beyond mine, or really anyone's control at this point.

We, the consumers, collectively do it.  If we didn't use the products whose manufacturing and use cause greenhouse gasses, it would no longer be profitable for the companies to produce them.

Yes, if it is a problem, you are part of the problem.  We, collectively, have made a choice, and one of the effects of that choice is that more greenhouse gasses have been produced.  You'll complain about it, but you are not willing to pay the price, changing your lifestyle, to do anything about it.

I would argue that there is nothing wrong about that choice, so long as you understand that this is the cost.

Again I say, it is not my fault personally. If there was anything I could do I would.

I say it is, if you are personally not willing to alter you lifestyle.  You say that the reason for this is corporations and governments, and yet you buy an use the products of these corporations and use the services of these governments.

When you say, "If there was anything I could do I would," you are being dishonest.

No I am not being dishonest. I am not Jesus, I cannot save the world.

[Hatman 🍁]

Hey, If by not using my computer I could sing handedly stop global warming, I would, but it is beyond mine, or really anyone's control at this point.

We, the consumers, collectively do it.  If we didn't use the products whose manufacturing and use cause greenhouse gasses, it would no longer be profitable for the companies to produce them.

Yes, if it is a problem, you are part of the problem.  We, collectively, have made a choice, and one of the effects of that choice is that more greenhouse gasses have been produced.  You'll complain about it, but you are not willing to pay the price, changing your lifestyle, to do anything about it.

I would argue that there is nothing wrong about that choice, so long as you understand that this is the cost.

Again I say, it is not my fault personally. If there was anything I could do I would.

I say it is, if you are personally not willing to alter you lifestyle.  You say that the reason for this is corporations and governments, and yet you buy an use the products of these corporations and use the services of these governments.

When you say, "If there was anything I could do I would," you are being dishonest.

No I am not being dishonest. I am not Jesus, I cannot save the world.

But you can do your part and encourage others to do the same. Every little bit that one person contributes adds up with the little bits other people contribute.

That's what I am doing here, trying to tell you there is a problem. I am doing my part

[Hatman 🍁]

Again, I say- changing my lifestyle is not going to change anything.

[Hatman 🍁]

Again, I say- changing my lifestyle is not going to change anything.

Bitching to us isn't going to change anything either, now is it?

I agree

[Hatman 🍁]

Again, I say- changing my lifestyle is not going to change anything.

Bitching to us isn't going to change anything either, now is it?

I agree

So how then are you doing your part again?

You're missing my point. I have already said I am not Jesus. I'm not Buddha either. There,  you happy?

[Hatman 🍁]

Again, I say- changing my lifestyle is not going to change anything.

Bitching to us isn't going to change anything either, now is it?

I agree

So how then are you doing your part again?

You're missing my point. I have already said I am not Jesus. I'm not Buddha either. There,  you happy?

You said you were doing your part.

That's what I am doing here, trying to tell you there is a problem. I am doing my part

So, which is it - are you doing your part by bitching to us about the problem, which you admit does absolutely nothing to change anything, or are you not doing your part?

Well, if I were doing "my part" that would be it. However, there is no point of "doing my part" because I am powerless.

[Hatman 🍁]

Again, I say- changing my lifestyle is not going to change anything.

Bitching to us isn't going to change anything either, now is it?

I agree

So how then are you doing your part again?

You're missing my point. I have already said I am not Jesus. I'm not Buddha either. There,  you happy?

You said you were doing your part.

That's what I am doing here, trying to tell you there is a problem. I am doing my part

So, which is it - are you doing your part by bitching to us about the problem, which you admit does absolutely nothing to change anything, or are you not doing your part?

Well, if I were doing "my part" that would be it. However, there is no point of "doing my part" because I am powerless.

Right, you have absolutely no choice in how much energy you consume every day, what kind of car you drive(if one at all), what household chemicals you use, ect. Those matters are something you have absolutely no power in.

What I have no power in is the climate.  So I any change I make will be insignifigant.

[Hatman 🍁]

Well, if I were doing "my part" that would be it. However, there is no point of "doing my part" because I am powerless.

Right, you have absolutely no choice in how much energy you consume every day, what kind of car you drive(if one at all), what household chemicals you use, ect. Those matters are something you have absolutely no power in.

What I have no power in is the climate.  So I any change I make will be insignifigant.

You have the power to make a small change. As I said, it adds up, but you have to live by example so that other people see that it is possible. If you can convince, say, 10 people to live a lifestyle that minimizes their use of greenhouse gases and can get them to spread that, then you've done something. One person doing it may be insignificant, but if you could get more and more people doing it the effect is much greater. However, you've already given up before you've even started, so as far as I'm concerned you have no business preaching to the rest of us about the problem when you aren't even willing to do the slightest bit. If you live by the mentality "I can't do anything about it" you've already lost.

Yes, we have already lost. Climate change is pretty much beyond anyone's control.

[Hatman 🍁]

Well, if I were doing "my part" that would be it. However, there is no point of "doing my part" because I am powerless.

Right, you have absolutely no choice in how much energy you consume every day, what kind of car you drive(if one at all), what household chemicals you use, ect. Those matters are something you have absolutely no power in.

What I have no power in is the climate.  So I any change I make will be insignifigant.

You have the power to make a small change. As I said, it adds up, but you have to live by example so that other people see that it is possible. If you can convince, say, 10 people to live a lifestyle that minimizes their use of greenhouse gases and can get them to spread that, then you've done something. One person doing it may be insignificant, but if you could get more and more people doing it the effect is much greater. However, you've already given up before you've even started, so as far as I'm concerned you have no business preaching to the rest of us about the problem when you aren't even willing to do the slightest bit. If you live by the mentality "I can't do anything about it" you've already lost.

Yes, we have already lost. Climate change is pretty much beyond anyone's control.

It's sad to see people quit. Oh well, as I said, stop preaching about it then, because if you aren't gonna try to do anything about it then there's no point.

Hey, I still have my freedom of speech Mr. Libertarian.

[Hatman 🍁]

How dare you call me a hypocrite! All I said was that Global Warming is a serious issue that it too far for anyone to help. How is my inablility to help being hipocritical?

[Hatman 🍁]

How dare you call me a hypocrite! All I said was that Global Warming is a serious issue that it too far for anyone to help. How is my inablility to help being hipocritical?

You were acting as if we should do something about it. Only after that did you say that there was nothing we could do. What do you expect?

I apologize if I said you should do anything about it. What I found offensive was the ignorance of the issue.

[Hatman 🍁]

How dare you call me a hypocrite! All I said was that Global Warming is a serious issue that it too far for anyone to help. How is my inablility to help being hipocritical?

You were acting as if we should do something about it. Only after that did you say that there was nothing we could do. What do you expect?

I apologize if I said you should do anything about it. What I found offensive was the ignorance of the issue.

Are you offended by your own ignorance? 

According to the article, the polar ice has retreated to a position where was a little more than a century ago.  Were we having tropical forest in the Ohio valley a century ago?

That is not the truth, to begin with.

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Im sure the high areas of Tuvalu were uninhabitable anyways. Not much they could do if the water rose anyways.

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I have no choice in the matter.