is the whole idea of salvation through faith alone evil? (user search)
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  is the whole idea of salvation through faith alone evil? (search mode)
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Author Topic: is the whole idea of salvation through faith alone evil?  (Read 2677 times)
SingingAnalyst
mathstatman
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« on: February 05, 2018, 12:38:59 PM »
« edited: February 05, 2018, 12:40:35 PM by mathstatman »

As a rigid doctrine I believe it to be deeply flawed. As a principle, I believe it has merit (and I say this as a Catholic). Whatever wrongdoings someone has done, I believe they have an opportunity to experience a change of heart (repentance, which I believe is a part of genuine faith: I think it is telling that Jesus said "Repent and believe", rather than "believe and repent" - Mark 1:15). This change of heart, if genuine, will take the form of making (or at least attempting to make) things right.

I think the essence of "faith alone" is that there is nothing we can do to "deserve" salvation; it is the work of G-d alone. What role does free will have in such a change of heart? Frankly, I have no idea.

As a statistician, do I believe the "six-sigma" rule applies to "whatever wrongdoings" someone has done? Probably.
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SingingAnalyst
mathstatman
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 01:53:26 PM »

A deathbed conversion is one thing (I am reminded of the saying "hard cases make bad law"); living one's life for years as a person of "faith" is another.

What is faith? Faith in what? Most Christians would say faith in the power of Jesus to save their soul. But a lot of baggage can come with that. Churches and the people in them, for one thing. People of "faith" are admonished to "not forsake the assembly" (Hebrews 10:25) and to accept that "all Scripture is God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Victims of molestation, as mentioned above, even someone dealing with a difficult personal crisis as portrayed by Jennifer Garner in the 2016 movie "Miracles from Heaven" may have reason to stay away. In addition, in many fundamentalist circles, disbelief in a literal, six-day creation is considered a warning sign of apostasy. As I have said elsewhere in this forum, I do not believe that the same God who "wants all... to be saved" (1 Timothy 2:4) would deliberately deceive the seeker (of whom Charles Darwin definitely was one) by making the universe appear ancient, when it was not.
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SingingAnalyst
mathstatman
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 07:15:13 AM »

It is incompatible with the concept of a just god.

But the core of the Christian message is that God care more about mercy than justice.
Horrible dichotomy, IHMO. The assumption (that in my understanding is not part of the Jewish understanding of human nature) is total depravity.

Jesus showed both mercy and justice to the woman caught in the act of adultery. While the text (John 7:53 - 8:11) leaves this out, I'm sure the woman was weeping, and sorry.

Even today we use the phrase "contrary to equity and good conscience" to describe an unjustifiable denial of service, benefits, etc.  Justice and mercy are not incompatible.
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SingingAnalyst
mathstatman
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2018, 10:53:59 AM »

It is incompatible with the concept of a just god.

But the core of the Christian message is that God care more about mercy than justice.
Horrible dichotomy, IHMO. The assumption (that in my understanding is not part of the Jewish understanding of human nature) is total depravity.

Jesus showed both mercy and justice to the woman caught in the act of adultery. While the text (John 7:53 - 8:11) leaves this out, I'm sure the woman was weeping, and sorry.

Even today we use the phrase "contrary to equity and good conscience" to describe an unjustifiable denial of service, benefits, etc.  Justice and mercy are not incompatible.

But neither are they synonymous and when the two are in conflict, mercy prevails.
Point well taken.
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