Public health care

[David S]

The fundamental problem with health care in America is that its too expensive. Even huge companies like GM are struggling under the weight of health care costs for employees and retirees. The reason it is so expensive is that it doesn't operate as a competitive free market. Fix that problem and the costs will come down by themselves. Then it will be more affordable for everyone.

[David S]

The fundamental problem with health care in America is that its too expensive. Even huge companies like GM are struggling under the weight of health care costs for employees and retirees. The reason it is so expensive is that it doesn't operate as a competitive free market. Fix that problem and the costs will come down by themselves. Then it will be more affordable for everyone.

Is that really the reason?  It is the sort of thing that is just not going to be all  that cheap, given the training and technology involved.  I suspect the main reason it costs a lot in the US is patent enforcement.

There are a few areas of medical care which still operate as a competitive free market. In those areas costs are reasonable or even decreasing. Vision correction surgery is not usually covered by insurance or Medicare so it still operates as a free market. 20 years ago that process cost about $3000 per eye, but today it is frequently advertised for less than $1000 per eye. I understand breast augmentation has undergone a similar price reduction. (You should appreciate that    )

Over the counter drugs are another example. Walk into any drugstore and you see a wide assortment of products for various conditions. Competitive products are displayed side by side with prices shown. And they are all relatively inexpensive. Want pain relievers? If Tylenol is too expensive how about Advil instead? And if that's still too costly how about aspirin? And if Bayer is too much you can buy the generic brand dirt cheap. The thing is that customers can make cost comparisons and pick whatever meets their need and fits their budget. If the manufacturers want to sell their product they must offer it at a competitive price or customers will buy something else. Competition drives low prices. It really works.

[David S]

The fundamental problem with health care in America is that its too expensive. Even huge companies like GM are struggling under the weight of health care costs for employees and retirees. The reason it is so expensive is that it doesn't operate as a competitive free market. Fix that problem and the costs will come down by themselves. Then it will be more affordable for everyone.

Is that really the reason?  It is the sort of thing that is just not going to be all  that cheap, given the training and technology involved.  I suspect the main reason it costs a lot in the US is patent enforcement.

There are a few areas of medical care which still operate as a competitive free market. In those areas costs are reasonable or even decreasing. Vision correction surgery is not usually covered by insurance or Medicare so it still operates as a free market. 20 years ago that process cost about $3000 per eye, but today it is frequently advertised for less than $1000 per eye. I understand breast augmentation has undergone a similar price reduction. (You should appreciate that    )

Over the counter drugs are another example. Walk into any drugstore and you see a wide assortment of products for various conditions. Competitive products are displayed side by side with prices shown. And they are all relatively inexpensive. Want pain relievers? If Tylenol is too expensive how about Advil instead? And if that's still too costly how about aspirin? And if Bayer is too much you can buy the generic brand dirt cheap. The thing is that customers can make cost comparisons and pick whatever meets their need and fits their budget. If the manufacturers want to sell their product they must offer it at a competitive price or customers will buy something else. Competition drives low prices. It really works.

Yeah, like I said  about the patents.

I'm not sure if you're trying to make a serious point or just being Opebo.

[David S]

It can cost as much as a billion dollars to get a drug through the FDA approval process. R & D adds even more to that cost. For a drug company to remain solvent they must be able to recover that cost through sales revenue. Without patent laws a competitor could reverse engineer a drug, and make a knockoff product without having to spend all the development money. They could then sell it for far less than the original product. That's a formula for bankruptcy for the company that developed the drug. Without patent protection drug companies would not develop new drugs.

Rather than eliminate patent rights, a better solution for government might be to streamline the approval process so it doesn't cost so much to get a drug approved. The high development cost is also discouraging pharmaceuticals from developing drugs for rare diseases because they know there are not enough potential customers to recoup the costs.

[David S]

Rather than eliminate patent rights, a better solution for government might be to streamline the approval process so it doesn't cost so much to get a drug approved.

Is it really necessary to use poor people as guinea pigs just to save a few bucks?

Number one - no one said that. But despite the rigorous procedures required for FDA approval, drugs still get approved which later prove to have dangerous side effects. There is no such thing as 100% safe. But you can spend an unlimited amount of money trying to make them 100% safe, and you end up making drugs extremely expensive. Lets have reasonable safety procedures but not procedures that make drugs unaffordable.

Number two you were just complaining about the high cost of drugs, but you don't want to do anything to reduce the cost. Although I suspect you are going to propose something like murdering all the rich people and using their money to pay for prescription drugs.

[David S]

Rather than eliminate patent rights, a better solution for government might be to streamline the approval process so it doesn't cost so much to get a drug approved.

Is it really necessary to use poor people as guinea pigs just to save a few bucks?

Number one - no one said that. But despite the rigorous procedures required for FDA approval, drugs still get approved which later prove to have dangerous side effects. There is no such thing as 100% safe. But you can spend an unlimited amount of money trying to make them 100% safe, and you end up making drugs extremely expensive. Lets have reasonable safety procedures but not procedures that make drugs unaffordable.

Number two you were just complaining about the high cost of drugs, but you don't want to do anything to reduce the cost. Although I suspect you are going to propose something like murdering all the rich people and using their money to pay for prescription drugs.

Actually we're currently murdering poor people to pay for everything that the rich get, so turnabout would be fairplay.

Anyway I suspect blaming the FDA is just another right-wing red-herring.

Your first two comments are obvious horsesh**t and don't warrant a response but the next one deserves  some comment:

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Its human nature for people to be unconcerned about the cost of something when someone else is paying for it. (In your case though there is also a nefarious intent to assail rich people, at least until you become one.) But not caring about the cost is exactly what has led to the problems we now face. Whether it is people on Medicare or Medicaid or private health insurance, people don't make cost effective decisions when they aren't stuck paying the bill.

In other aspects of out lives our decisions are influenced by cost. Most people buy Chevy's rather than Cadilacs because the Cadilac costs much more and the Chevy can meet their needs for a lower price. You have also done something similar since you drive a motorscooter rather than a car, ya cheap bastard.

But in health care when someone else  is paying we don't shop for the best price and we don't consider cost when we think about the alternatives. The result is that Medicare and Medicaid costs are skyrocketing out of control and companies like GM are not too far from bankruptcy, in part because of health care costs.