Israel to Refugees: Go Back to Africa or Go to Prison

[traininthedistance]

You are literally crazy, your worldview is literally crazy, and I'm not going to take the effort to reply to your hogwash once again. I'm going to put you on ignore because your baseless accusations go too far, and I'm sure you will not regret that I'll be doing so. Goodbye.

I'm not sure that someone who thinks supporting the Iran deal (which, by all objective accounting, will improve the safety of everyone in the Middle East, Israel included) makes you a "race traitor" has any room to talk about "literally crazy" worldviews.

Ag takes the ideal of cosmopolitanism to its logical conclusion.  You don't need to agree (obviously I'm far far more sympathetic than you, but I'm not sure I would, either) but surely you can step outside of your own biases and understand why and how he believes what he does?

[traininthedistance]

 "race traitor"

Please show me where I used these words. Tip: I didn't. Jews are not a "race". Only nazis think Jews are a race.

Sorry, "self-hatred", I misremembered.  Your correction is well-taken.  The basic point stands.

Ag takes the ideal of cosmopolitanism to its logical conclusion.  You don't need to agree (obviously I'm far far more sympathetic than you, but I'm not sure I would, either) but surely you can step outside of your own biases and understand why and how he believes what he does?

I understand MalaspinaGold's worldview, even though we don't agree on almost everything, but ag's worldview... nope, I don't understand that. I also don't feel the urge to try.

You don't understand why someone would sympathize with those who are forced to be in the minority, with those who don't have the privilege of power and roots, with the downtrodden and spat-upon?  You don't understand how someone could learn those lessons from their history, how they could generalize from their own experience and apply their empathy to all peoples?

Again, I wouldn't actually say I agree with ag.  There are some important details he misses.  But I do respect his stance on Kohlbergian grounds, and think that all reflective people should at least be willing to take it seriously.

[traininthedistance]

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You don't seem to understand that I myself, as a Jew in a big European city (which is not the same as in America), am forced to be in the minority. Talk about "privilege"? What "privilege" do I have by not being able to walk through my own multicultural, poor neighborhood with a yarmulke, or with my necklace with a magen david, without the chance of being harassed by groups of teenage guys hanging around, without feeling self-conscious all the time? That I don't notice people's strange, often hostile looks when I do wear my necklace or my kippa outside my neighborhood? And I'm quite a tough, strong guy, while many in my community aren't. Not complaining about this, just pointing out some basic facts.

Obviously I understand the urge many Jews have to show solidarity with other people who are (deemed) oppressed. And I'll stand by other oppressed people, provided that they don't hate me for who I am. But I get the impression some people think everything is A-OK with Jews now, and we can "move on to other oppressed groups" or something like that. That's not the case. Israel is continuously under attack: Hamas' anti-Semitism is not something that could have targeted any nation, it's a typical anti-Jewish thing, just the same as when the nazis wanted to wipe us out. Meanwhile, the situation in Europe is becoming insufferable for many Jews - just look at the aliyah rates from France.

I don't understand how a Jew could forget that the Shoa was not about discriminating some random minority, it was actually about discriminating Jews. That the pogroms and the ghettos weren't just policies against some random minority, it was actually about discriminating and killing Jews. We need to stand together, because the anti-Semitic poison hasn't magically gone away, it still exists and it's becoming worse and worse. However, nowadays, for many "cosmopolitan" Jews who lack any understanding of (and pride in) the precious heritage of their people, when it comes to making priorities, other Jews come last. And that's what I don't get. I totally understand if people think that there should be a two-state solution in the interest of Israel and blah blah blah, even if I totally disagree with it. But I don't understand if people simply don't care about Jewish pain, about Jewish lives, about Jewish rights, or actively try to deny their fellow Jews basic rights.

The awful level of anti-Semitism in Europe (and that, similarly, gets smuggled in under cover of other concerns in some corners of the left) is precisely what I was thinking about when I said that ag is missing some important details.  I completely respect how your experience there could lead to the sorts of views you have.  Of course, just because a group is oppressed in some arenas doesn't mean they can't also be the oppressor in others.  The world is a large and complicated place.  

I guess I should probably confess that I'm not actually Jewish.  I merely share my life with someone who is.  And, in the unlikely case I ever have children, they will be.