Boy Scouts Lifts Ban on Gay Scout Leaders (user search)
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  Boy Scouts Lifts Ban on Gay Scout Leaders (search mode)
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Author Topic: Boy Scouts Lifts Ban on Gay Scout Leaders  (Read 2945 times)
Negusa Nagast 🚀
Nagas
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Posts: 2,826
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« on: July 28, 2015, 09:51:07 AM »

As an Eagle Scout, I am pleased to hear this! However, we still need to have a conversation about the restrictions on the non-religious and about dropping the B from BSA.
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Negusa Nagast 🚀
Nagas
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,826
United States


« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 04:13:24 PM »
« Edited: July 28, 2015, 04:19:40 PM by Nagas »

As an Eagle Scout, I am pleased to hear this! However, we still need to have a conversation about the restrictions on the non-religious and about dropping the B from BSA.
If they dropped the B I'm out.

Separating based on gender is an antiquated concept and one that is being abandoned internationally. Two separate scouting organizations is unnecessary, inefficient, and the BSA is all too often dragging its feel into the ground whereas the GSA is much more inline with social values and embracing change. There is not one good reason to keep the organizations separated.

If you were to leave because the resources of the BSA were to no longer be an all boy's club, the organization would be a lot better off without you.  
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Negusa Nagast 🚀
Nagas
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,826
United States


« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2015, 03:29:52 PM »

As an Eagle Scout, I am pleased to hear this! However, we still need to have a conversation about the restrictions on the non-religious and about dropping the B from BSA.
If they dropped the B I'm out.

Separating based on gender is an antiquated concept and one that is being abandoned internationally. Two separate scouting organizations is unnecessary, inefficient, and the BSA is all too often dragging its feel into the ground whereas the GSA is much more inline with social values and embracing change. There is not one good reason to keep the organizations separated.

If you were to leave because the resources of the BSA were to no longer be an all boy's club, the organization would be a lot better off without you.  

So what if it is an "antiquated" concept?  That doesn't mean it isn't a good one.  There is room enough in this world for both organizations which are gender specific, and those which are gender integrated.  Whether you like it or not, male and female are still important social categories with often different developmental needs.

Developmental needs are relatively minimal, and can be easily dealt with outside the program.

There are two main issues with keeping the organizations separate. The first is that doing so reinforces traditional gender roles and the gender binary (never mind the rampant trans phobia present in the BSA). Keeping a separation based on gender also leads to problematic group think; an all male troop is unlikely to have a serious check on internal misogyny. The main criticism voiced by Classic Conservative seems to be that boys and girls will want to just sleep with each other; I guess we'll just have to separate boys and girls on church retreats or in schools because they might hook up? Roll Eyes International scouting organizations don't have a problem with this, neither does Venture Scouting, nor did the national jamboree when they allowed female scouts to come for the first time.

The second issue is one of institutional capability. The two organizations are separate but unequal. BSA has a disproportionate amount of money, assets, and political capital whereas the GSA does not, and suffers for it. Conversely, the GSA is much better at dealing with the social reality of a changing America wrt LBGT and non-Christian scouts, whereas the BSA, despite recent movements, is still rampantly homophobic and Christian. Merging the organizations helps correct for the unique issues of each while creating greater opportunities for all scouts.


Well this thread has certainly demonstrated to me that most people's view on human nature is certainly f'ed up. We got gays=pedos and gender-integrated troops becoming sex parties in here. Very odd.

Indeed, the views expressed against gender-integration here are quite off the mark compared to what actually occurs.
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Negusa Nagast 🚀
Nagas
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,826
United States


« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2015, 03:54:10 PM »

Developmental needs are relatively minimal, and can be easily dealt with outside the program.

Uh, what?  Boy Scouts is all about boy's development.  The needs of boys to learn how to be boys and men in successful and healthy ways are not "minimal."   If they don't get it at Boy Scouts, they will try to find it somewhere else.  Because it is a basic social need.

Interaction with girls will happen outside the program, won't it? 

Thanks for proving my first point: the development a Boy Scout undergoes and the skills learned are not unique to males in the slightest. That we should be inculcating boys and girls into mutually exclusive gender roles is fundamentally wrong. Creating an all male echo chamber that is far less likely to check on misogyny or homophobia (both large problems in the SQ) than an integrated program is not how we make boys be better men.
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