Comedy Goldmine XI: The Atlas Forum Demilitarized Zone

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The only celebrity supporter of his that I've heard of and been able to understand why he might support him is Woody Allen.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I didn't accuse you of taking anything out of context; I merely implied that you are insane.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

On Hannah Arendt:

The shiteforbrains nazi philosopher's shiteforbrains fangirl pet.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Go to the search thing. Type in "women" and "Flyers2010"

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If you say "pop" around here, everyone's gonna think you're queer.  Even the gays.

If you say soda here... We'll throw you into the Mon... That's not pleasant, trust me. I once saw a used tampon floating in it.

I'm less concerned about the used tampons than the 150 years worth of industrial waste.

Honestly... The Mon is foul...

I've seen people swim in it.  I wonder if they are still alive.

I shudder to think....

Also, when you consider that half the Mon Valley communities still don't have sewage treatment plants....

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Of course, the problem for you may be in the word "read".

[Filuwaúrdjan]

urbanized cities.

Wonderful. Simply... wonderful.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't see why it's too soon. The child abuser is dead, dead, dead, dead, dead. Hooray!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't see why it's too soon. The child abuser is dead, dead, dead, dead, dead. Hooray!

  We've been over this.

I wasn't here at the time and thought I'd better make up for it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

For quoting a not-at-all-amusing post into the Goldmine you are BANNED from it

Until you post, you know, a funny one.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

And I'm never playing in the same game as Xahar again.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

17 attack tokens on Xahar.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's amazing how dolphins are so psychologically similar to humans.  Who would have thought that they have fraternities as well?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Liberty in that era meant property ownership.  Freedom is what you get when you have liberty, according to Enlightenment philosophers.

That really depends on which of the 'Enlightenment philosophers' you mean and what you mean by 'property ownership'. If it's in the modern sense of ownership of goods (like how I own this computer I am typing on) then liberty patently did not mean property ownership, but if you're talking about property ownership in terms of owning my person then yes it could, but in that sense it is perhaps more apt to say that property meant liberty. Take Locke, for example, in his Second Treatise he writes - on the origin of Society - that it is 'not without reason, that he seeks out, and is willing to joyn in Society with others who are already united, or have a mind to unite for the mutual Preservation of their Lives, Liberties and Estates, which I call by the general Name, Property. You'll note he talks about both Liberties and Estates, so liberty is something different from property ownership in the narrower sense that we mean it today. He goes on to say that 'The great and chief end therefore, of Mens uniting into Commonwealths, and putting themselves under Government, is the Preservation of their Property. To which in the state of Nature there are many things wanting.' So government is all about the preservation of property, which to Locke means 'Lives, Liberties and Estates'. At other times Locke does discuss property in the tangible sense of owning materials and goods, but again, he draws a distinction between this and liberty. For instance he argues 'But though Men when they enter into Society, give up the Equality, Liberty, and Executive Power they had in the State of Nature, into the hands of Society, to be so far disposed of by the Legislative, as the good of the Society shall require; yet it being only with an intention in every one the better to preserve himself his Liberty and Property'. The mention of both liberty and property - in the sense of 'estate' - would seem to indicate that Locke does not regard liberty as simply meaning property ownership.

So what does he mean by 'liberty'? From the opening of chapter IV of the Second Treatise: 'The Natural Liberty of Man is to be free from any Superior Power on Earth, and not to be under the Will or Legislative Authority of Man, but to have only the Law of Nature for his Rule. The Liberty of Man, in Society, is to be under no other Legislative Power, but that established, by consent, in the Common-wealth, nor under the Dominion of any Will, or Restraint of any Law, but what the Legislative shall enact, according to the Trust put in it.' For Locke, it is the latter that is more important: 'If Man in the State of Nature be so free, as has been said; If he be absolute Lord of his own Person and Possessions, equal to the greatest, and subject to no Body ,why will he part with his Freedom? Why will he give up this Empire, and subject himself to the Dominion and Controul of any other Power? To which 'tis obvious to Answer, that thought in the state of Nature he hath such a right, yet the Enjoyment of it is very uncertain, and constantly exposed to the Invasion of others. For all being Kings as much as he, every Man his Equal, and the greater part no strict Observers of Equity and Justice, the enjoyment of the property he has in this state is very unsafe, very unsecure. This makes him willing to quit this Condition, which however free, is full of fears and continual dangers'. So, in a sense, for Locke, man parts with his freedom in creating society and he does so in order that he may protect his property, by which he means not only material goods, but life and liberty.

Beyond that, of course, there are far more extensive uses of liberty than simply to mean property ownership - take for instance the frequent discussions on the liberty of the press. I'll just use one example, the opening to Hume's essay 'Of the Liberty of the Press', which opens with the sentiment that 'Nothing is more apt to surprize a foreigner, than the extreme liberty, which we enjoy in this country, of communicating whatever we please to the public, and of openly censuring every measure, entered into by the king or his ministers.' In that sense, liberty clearly does not mean property ownership.

So, again, I am led to ask, who exactly you were talking about? Beyond that issue, I don't see how any of this contradicts what I stated in my previous post. You'll note that in my first sentence I mentioned I was referring to the 'late eighteenth-century/early nineteenth-century' and that I pointed to this suspicion being 'among those who classed themselves in opposition to the French Revolution'. At this point, most of the philosophes of the 'Enlightenment' were dead.

pwned. Also, an excellent post in its own right and worth reading for that...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Thank god it's not true.

I'm not sure it's even possible for a creature without a functioning heart to die.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, clearly you should be proud of your tiny attention span and brag about it to everyone else. Because that is clearly the mark of a Real Man.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, clearly you should be proud of your tiny attention span and brag about it to everyone else. Because that is clearly the mark of a Real Man.

I'm sorry Sibboleth, but there is a reason why people don't often put uber long quotes in the Comedy Goldmine, because they are not comedic dude.
And thank you.

The humour wasn't in the post, but in the context (as I specifically pointed out).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I came here to discuss a dead cat, not the shifting politics of some teenager.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

But $7,788 to $10,302? Please, my annual high school tuition cost more than that.

Taking responsibility for my own finances rather than leeching off the taxpayer is so horrible of me.

Fail.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

...my opinion saves you from writing an amendment that the Court could happily misinterpret in some creative way.

In the meantime Xahar can screw up the region so many have helped to revive

You forgot to add 'happily', DWTL.  'Xahar can happily screw up the region'.