Which country has the best Health Care System?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The answer depends on how much money you have and how well you are...

If you're rich, the U.S.A has by far the best Healthcare system in the world. No disputing that at all.

But if you're poor or have a long term condition, the NHS is excellent (I know this from personal experiance).

Everything is relative

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How does chronic illnesses and prescription drugs work?  Who pays?

As I have a chronic illness and have to use prescription drugs for it...

The NHS is free at the point of use and funded through taxation. There's no insurance, means tests or anything like that. You get a letter telling you that you have an appointment of the Umpteenth of Upmtember or whatever and you turn up at the hospital on that date. You don't pay anything. Simple.
Prescription drugs are more complicated: if you have a chronic illness or whatever, they're free. If it's for something like a cold there's a small fee paid to the chemist.
Pretty much all drugs are generics.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

So no newer drugs?

We get newer drugs. Most prescription drugs are generics which is entirely logical. Why should the NHS have to pay more for a label?

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Because it's not a serious or chronic condition and the NHS is not made of money. If it got serious any treatment would be for free. All prescriptions are free for children or pensioners.

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It is. If you break you're leg and get it fixed you don't have to pay anything... not even insurance beforehand.
Makes sense to me.

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I've no idea about hip operations

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No. An operation has to be proved safe etc. before you can have it on the NHS. N.I.C.E has serious doubts about the safety of laser eye surgery so it isn't going to be on the NHS anytime soon

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Dental stuff is different again. No idea.

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No. Of course not.

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Same rules as drug prescriptions apply (not sure about pensioners).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

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It is. If you break you're leg and get it fixed you don't have to pay anything... not even insurance beforehand.
Makes sense to me.

What about taxes?

Most people get back far more than they put in (the core principle of the NHS is healthcare to everyone, free at the point of use).
There is no seperate health tax; the Chanceller just decideds how much of the total budget the NHS gets.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Prescription drugs. Each item is charged at £6.20. People of pensionable age, people on welfare etc are exempt from these charges. Out patients, who don't have exemption are expected to pay for prescription drugs that are "take home".

I'd forgotton what the charges are (I don't have to worry about that now).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Tory is just another example of a tea swirling, crumpet munching bad toothed brit.

I hope you're trying to be offensive just for the hell of it...I hope you meant swilling...I hope you notice you're confusing classes here...Tory munches crumpets, Al has bad teeth. Both swill tea. Of course that would be theory, reality might be different.

My teeth are fine, but I do drink a lot of tea. Strong tea. In a mug.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I dislike the idea of taxpayers money going towards helping people opt out of (and weaken) public services (I oppose vouchers on the same grounds).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The standards for poverty in the United States are much lower than in Europe. The average American in poverty has a higher standard of living than the average European.

Depends what standard of living is defined as, and what an average European is defined as.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A study I saw showed that 85% of Americans in poverty had a vehicle, 50% had more than one. 96% of Americans in poverty had a TV. Over 50% had computers with internet service!

I was shocked.

Consumer goods are not and never have been an accurate way of meausing either poverty or standards of living.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Food, housing and medicine are human rights IMO.

America has a big problem with poverty. Europe has a big problem with poverty. Know what? Everwhere has a big problem with poverty. Poverty, like income, is all relative.

And if you think the reduction in the U.S's poverty rates over the past 40 odd year's as anything to do with "Capitalism" you are kidding yourself.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A right is something you always have. So if someone refuses to work - not can't work, just flat out refuses to do so - does he still have the right to food, housing, and medicine? If we had a right to such things, they would just pop out of thin air.

You say you have a right to own a gun. What's the difference?

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Yes... but poverty in the U.S was at it's very worst during the late 19th Century. There have been some great leaps forward in the 20th century in most industrialised countries.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I have the right to own a gun, not the right to a gun. If I wish to have a gun, I must earn money to purchase it. I do not have an automatic right to have it without doing something for it. Once I have earned it, it is my property and I have the right to keep it. The same goes for food, housing, medicine, or any other good - I have the right to keep it once I have payed for it, as it is my property(with the exclusion of goods that violate or are used to violate the rights of others, such as a slave, which violates the rights of the enslaved individual, or a gun used to commit murder, which used in such a way violates the rights of the murdered). Basically I have a right to what I legally earn, not a right to anything I need or want just because I need or want it.

Strange way of looking at things... no point arguing with you about it though.

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I was actually thinking of urban/industrial/new immigrant areas. Terrible poverty, overcrowding, lack of sanitation... With a special mention to Lower East Side Manhatten.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't consider North Korea et al to be Socialist

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well lets see Karl Marx was the chief socialist as I see it.

Then you sir are wrong. Anglophone Socialism has hardly anything to do with Marxism, and most European Socialist parties dropped it after WW2.
Get you're facts straight.

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I disagree with this
 

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I agree with this
 

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I disagree with this up to a point
 

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I agree with this up to a point
 

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Not sure what's he's talking about
 
 

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I agree with this (as far as such services in 1848 existed)
 

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I agree with that
 

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No longer nessessary
 

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I agree with that up to a point
 

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How on earth could anyone be opposed to that?

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No they don't

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yeah Karl Marx is not a socialist, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics wasn't socialist and the pope is not a catholic. Give me a break!

1. Yes, Marx was a Socialist. But not all Socialists agree with Marx.
2. Correct. The U.S.S.R wasn't even close to being Socialist (in some ways the U.S is actually more Socialist than it was)
3. I don't think I ever questioned that.
4. Since when did you know more about what Socialism is than Socialists?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Fabian society's birthday today.  Al , I assume that you are that brand of socialist....

Up to a point... but I'm more a Trade Union/Christian Socialist really.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I see. Fabians were a little too toff-y

That's it :-)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

"Poor" people in the United States can afford to own a house, own two cars, and have cable TV.  You do not see this in Europe.

You do actually, but that's not really the point... consumer goods are not a good indicator of economic status... apparently in China more people have DVD players than Hot/Cold running water because electricity is easier to install than piping.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Piped hot water is highly uncommon in most parts of the world.

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True, but methinks that DVD players are a lot rarer (they're rare enough over here)

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Same in the U.K

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House prices are insanely high here (but as most people in poorer areas either: a) rent (mosted council houses are actually quite nice. Nicer than those ghastly exurban monstrosities that started to spring up in the '80's) or b) have lived in the same house for a long time/bought their old council house in the selloffs in the '80's.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Not really. They don't really cost more than CD players anymore.

True but not really the point... I used it as an example of why consumer goods are generally a bad way to measure economic status

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes... I'm sure that Cato is an unbiased source and doesn't have an agenda to run or something...