The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread

[ingemann]

Most of the former Soviet Bloc countries have a similar left-wing rural/right-wing cities divide. Same reason?

In general no, but it's complex, yes communism spread some industries to rural areas, but it's more a element of other aspects, tradition agriculture are not competive in eastern Europe (so anti-free market), the rural population are older and have less employment (the pensions and remnants of the old welfare states are more important for old people) and rural people are in general more reactionary than urban people, and socialism in the Soviet block was the old establishment.

[ingemann]

The question we need to ask when we ask these kind of question is; why would people vote for a party to the right of SD?

Yes there will always be people who think anything less than death camps are too liberal, but those people are too little group to count. Instead people can choose between a party, which have proven it can come in parliament, have proven it doesn't collapse, have proven that it's competent and have broad appeal or you can choose wild eyed lunatics. There's likely a large number of people who think that SD is too liberals, but what else do these people agree with each other about, some may be nazi, other xenophobics greens, other national conservatives etc, these people can not agree to unite, and for them SD may look like the best compromise.

[ingemann]

I really have difficulty in fathoming the short sighted thinking of the Christian Democrats (and the rest of the Alliance) with this since right now it seems quite unlikely that the Alliance will be larger than the Social Democrats and Sweden Democrats put together, which means that SD would only need to vote for the S budget to defeat an Alliance government budget. Basically the Alliance have just flushed their only chance at implementing economic policies without serious concessions to either the Social Democrats or Sweden Democrats down the toilet.

The problem is that the moment the Alliance embraced this shortsighted anti-SD alliance, the  government got their hands around their ball, they can't back down without looking like they given into SD inhumane immigration/minority policies (tm) for "cynical political reason". They have by trying to keep SD outside any influence given the government and the left a free reign. Of course they couldn't have gotten away with establish their own government after last election, but the sane thing to do if you want to keep SD from having influence, would have been to push a coalition government, of course just like the existing situation, it wouldn't have kept SD from growing, but from a centre-right perspective it would have been the least disasterous choice after last election.

I personally find it hilarious that the Swedish government we usual see as rather naive have been so good at a Machiavellian power play to maximise their political power after what in reality was a rather brutal defeat of them last election. The Swedish centre-right on the other hand have shown themselves political incompetent.

[ingemann]

I personally find it hilarious that the Swedish government we usual see as rather naive have been so good at a Machiavellian power play to maximise their political power after what in reality was a rather brutal defeat of them last election. The Swedish centre-right on the other hand have shown themselves political incompetent.

Have their economic policies since 2014 actually pushed Sweden to the left? Is there any major progressive reform they got to enact?

Whether they choose to push any progressive reforms through are secondary to the fact that they have set the centre-right checkmate. The Swedish government have also had to deal with external factors like EU financial demand, the international markets and the refugee crisis. So they can't just establish the Socialist Soviet Republic of Sweden (kidding kidding). But serious most countries are more limited by external factors than internal ones.

[ingemann]

OK, but why should anyone care if the SDs got the policies they wanted, if said policies are more or less the same the Alliance would have enacted anyway?

Beside what DavidB said.

Because the Left (like in most of Europe) in Sweden mostly upkeep the existing economic status quo, while the centre-right are the ones who wish a radical reform of the structures of the Swedish economy. The sad fact is that socialist in much of Europe lack a vision from how to reform society, they have become conservative while the conservatives have become revolutionary with a clear vision of what they want.

[ingemann]

Long bearded men with a black flag with white letters, I get why the passer by decided to contact the police.

[ingemann]

Some math from Swedo-Kurdish economist Tino Sanandaji in a recent interview with Weekendavisen (not online, so no link) called Nordens Mexico ("The Nordic Mexico")

He says that if the authorities let the number of refugees and immigrants continue at the current level Swedes with two Swedish-born parents will become a minority in 10 to 15 years.

His calculation:

At the moment 1,000 to 1,500 refugees and immigrants arrive each day. Multiply this by 365 days and then 15 years. Since about 77% gets asylum at their first applications (he adds that the number is higher, because you can apply again), you land at between 4.2 million and 6.3 million asylum seekers in 15 years time. Each asylum recipient will receive one additional asylum receiver through family reunification (rounded down from 1.2). Multiply this by two and you get between 8.4 million and 12.6 million immigrants by the year 2030.

The total number of people in Sweden is 9.7 million. Of these, 21.5% have a foreign background, which means that Swedes with two Swedish-born parents makes up 7.7 million. Ergo, the number of immigrants will within 10-15 years become higher than the ethnically Swedish population is today and since this group doesn't increase (it will fall a bit) the minorities will surpass ethnic Swedes within 10-15 years.

He says he expects the Swedish authorities to slow down migration long before that  happens, but its still a thought provoking calculation.

In an editorial in the LO owned Aftonbladet editor Anders Lindberg says the numbers are "creative statistics", where figures are bend to suit a particular purpose and that such ideas are "based on racial ideology" (given that they operate with an "eternal Swedishness"). But there seems to be little basis for claiming the first - and the second doesn't disqualify them as relevant.

While the calculus is unlikely to become a reality (which Sanandaji underlines) it just seems basically to be on solid ground.

His portrait of the future Sweden as a Latin America style society with a functioning economy, but high inequality, violence and gated communities is obviously a dystopia seen from a Social Democratic view, so no wonder he is unpopular in SAP circles.

I haven't read the article yet, but from what your describe, it's mostly correct if we see the last few month immigration continue. Of course won't we will illegal immigration will fall in the winter months (the Mediterranean become stormy and Anatolia a frozen wasteland), and even if Sweden do nothing, the rest of EU will do theirs to cut some of it off, which Sweden will also benefit from.

Also if it continued with 1500 illegal immigrants per day, iot's impossible to imagine that the Swedish establishment would have to react or that SD became so big that it became impossible to sideline them.

[ingemann]

SD claims KD is getting closer to their views, which Thor obviously denies. Seems a bit shortsighted of Åkesson to undermine KD like that. A stronger KD would be a strategic advantage for SD - pressuring M towards the right.

Not necessary, SD is better off, if the right keep treat them as unclean, it allow their party to grow even more and improve their position the day, they can no longer be kept outside influence.

[ingemann]

http://www.thelocal.se/20151020/hree-swedish-refugee-centres-in-a-week-hit-by-fire

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[ingemann]

http://www.thelocal.se/20151022/masked-man-enters-school-with-sword

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[ingemann]

http://www.thelocal.se/20151022/masked-man-enters-school-with-sword

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From what I remember, school killings are very rare in Sweden - much like in Austria where the last school killing was 18 years ago (slightly before the gun law was heavily tightened).

Quite rare, this may be racial motivated (Swede against immigrants), but I will wait until the Swedish police come with a comment to begin that discussion.

[ingemann]

Everything will go downhill from here on. In the worst case scenario, Sweden could become the new Denmark in the not too distant future.

Yes I guess it will be downhill to live in a country, where refugee centres doesn't burn, where politicians aren't murdered or if I want to go real low, where schoolchildren aren't killed by mad swordsmens.

The hard truth is that Denmark may have a harsher tone, but that's because we don't sugarcoat problems and let them grow over our heads before we reacts. We talk about them and deal with them, and some people may cry over that not being PC, but in the end Breivik, Pettersson, Ausonius and Mangs wasn't weeds which grew in our garden.

[ingemann]

Let's get some Swedish news again.

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[ingemann]

I swear to God, if you guys keep derailing this thread any longer by turning it into yet another thread where people name call others for being racist or what ever I will pull a Politicus and delete it. The thread is here for people to have sensible discussions about Swedish news and politics, not whether you think Denmark is the worst thing on this planet. Which is a ridiculous discussion that has no place here.

I am sorry for my share of derailing. You know I like this thread very much and have contributed to it in the past. Just felt the need to reply to some particularly bizarre remarks.

Meanwhile, SD has declined in the polls a little, now being somewhere between 16% and 20% -- consistently below both S and M.

Like DavidB I'm sorry about the negative contribution my answer to eric82oslo created, which was why I decided to not answer MaxQue provocation and ignore BundouYMB, and just post news.

BTW as for the whole Roma camp in Malmö, have it been Sweden discusses whether to deport them back to Romania (it's fully legal) or will they be given housing?

[ingemann]

I swear to God, if you guys keep derailing this thread any longer by turning it into yet another thread where people name call others for being racist or what ever I will pull a Politicus and delete it. The thread is here for people to have sensible discussions about Swedish news and politics, not whether you think Denmark is the worst thing on this planet. Which is a ridiculous discussion that has no place here.

I am sorry for my share of derailing. You know I like this thread very much and have contributed to it in the past. Just felt the need to reply to some particularly bizarre remarks.

Meanwhile, SD has declined in the polls a little, now being somewhere between 16% and 20% -- consistently below both S and M.

Like DavidB I'm sorry about the negative contribution my answer to eric82oslo created, which was why I decided to not answer MaxQue provocation and ignore BundouYMB, and just post news.

BTW as for the whole Roma camp in Malmö, have it been Sweden discusses whether to deport them back to Romania (it's fully legal) or will they be given housing?

LMAO the Roma aren't from Romania.

Which I have never said, the Romanians or Vlachs (from the Germanic Welsh meaning foreigners, which was traditional used for Romance or Celtic people) as they traditional was called, is a Romance people descendent from the pre-Slavic Vulgar Latin speaking peoples of the Balkans. Romani or Gypsies (from the word Egyptian, which came from the first Romani emigrating to Iberia had a leader who claimed to be prince of Egypt, and his followers to be Christian Egypt refugees) as they're traditional known in English on the other hand are Indo-Aryan speaking group who have emigrated to Europe (especially the Balkans) in the late middle age.

Of course Romania is also home to one the largest population of Romanis in the world, and these Romani in this camp near Malmö is from Romania, which is why they have been offered tickets home to Romania as mentioned by other posters which is their land of origin.

[ingemann]

The Swedish Red-Green Government held a press conference this afternoon, introducing several new measures to restrict and limit the high number of refugees. The new measures that will be introduced are the following:

• The Aliens Act will be adjusted so that Sweden accepts the EU minimum level of refugees. This will apply for three years.

• The right to family reunification will be subject to a very strict time limit.

I need some more information on these two.

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Wonderful, it had almost become a parody.

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Not a bad idea

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Good

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It's hard when reality bend ones ideal over and f**k them over.

[ingemann]

Episode 99 in the series named "the Swedish government's car crash foreign policy". Undoubtedly, many will follow.

We have a foreign policy, and it has been quite a while since we had that last time (and something that many countries lack). It will annoy the leadarship of some countries like Israel, Saudiarabia, Russia etc. So?

Was the stabber or victim Swedish? If not why was its the Swedish PM's business whether the stabbing was a common crime or a terror attack?

[ingemann]

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http://www.thelocal.se/20160418/swedens-housing-minister-quits-after-row



Swedish Turkish leader resigns after "death to Armenians" speech

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6408898

Let's hope that the Swedish Green Party doesn't get 4% the next election.

[ingemann]

Let's hope that the Swedish Green Party doesn't get 4% the next election.

It's not that unlikely that they actually fall below it at this point. This is far from the Greens first fock up the last year. Anyway, the two co-leaders of the party is now at risk of being ousted from their positions at the party's national congress in two weeks because of the party's complete collapse.   

We can only hope.

I also found these two interesting articles from the local

http://www.thelocal.se/20160423/green-party-may-have-been-infiltrated-by-islamists-researcher

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http://www.thelocal.se/20160428/green-party-politician-invited-bin-ladens-mentor-to-malm

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If I didn't already thought that MP was a bunch of complete retards (well I'm a little embarassed that I can't find a better words than retards, but morons or idiots are simply not strong enough) over their anti-growth policies. This would make me lose all respect that I had for them. But of course I can't lose anything I didn't have, for the anti growth thing is simply too stupid to write into a party program, it's worse than being 5th column for Salafists.

[ingemann]

And the Greens are in government!

Yep, which is a good thing, if it means the Swedes get rid of them next election.

[ingemann]

Rumors abound that the senior leadership of the SAP is leaning towards calling an extra election on Monday as their best bet.

While the Red-Greens+Centre in theory have a 175 to 174 majority, there is one rogue Left MP and one rogue Centre MP who are being cryptic about their support for a return of Löfven. There is also one Liberal MP who seems to more or less have quit her job so the situation is very risky for everyone involved if Sweden were to go to Presidential rounds.

SAP leadership supposedly thinks they can campaign on managing the COVID crisis well, the booming economy, successfully pumping the breaks on centre-right proposals while also achieving some of their own goals, etc. while reminding voters that SD could get into power while the Liberals could get the boot. Also, they could put the blame of a snap election during a crisis on the other parties.

Of course, these are unconfirmed rumors. Anecdotally, following up on social media with my Solna SAP friends, they seem to be in a fighting mood about an extra election.

..That sounds like the 2001 Danish elections, which Nyrup called based on the fact that he thought that 9/11 would push the Danes to choose the safe hand on the helm rather than risk a inexperienced PM supported by DPP.

Also do the Swedes agree that Löfven have handled COVID great? I must admit I mostly read Swedish debate forums and they don’t seems to agree on the Swedish handling of it, but I know that Danish internet debate aren’t representative of the Danish public debate or opinion. As for the Swedes I know, they’re not happy either but that’s purely anecdotal.