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Author Topic: You want your money back??  (Read 1414 times)
ingemann
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« on: November 26, 2012, 03:58:24 PM »

I still think it is possible, little step by little step, to advance a federalist and Social-Democratic vision of the EU, and gradually improve the severely flawed union we now have in order to build something better out of it. Is this naive? Maybe. But I also think it's the only alternative we have to the utter economic and social collapse of Europe. I'd rather cling to an unlikely utopia than resign myself to this nightmare.

I prefer to be naive instead of falling in the cynical pessimism that dominates in Europe nowadays. Such set of mindsets only drives to the precipice, in some countries in a more dramatic form than the others. My opinion is that decadence is inevitable in the set of Europe if we continue for this route. Also the problem is that socialdemocracy in Europe lacks of alternative proposals and it's in a state of shock and electoral weakness. There's a terrible lack of ideas in general and the short-term thinking dominates all the way. We should be conscious of this to see which is the way of exit. I'm not even very optimistic about the almighty Germany.
In many ways the Social Democratic model is up against the wall. You cant keep up high taxes combined with capitalist ownership because capital just moves away. So either you turn left and introduce some kind of economic democracy, where workers/cooperatives/unions etc. control production or go right and become softcore liberals. Since the 70s/early 80s no-one has no-one has dared turning left and therefore SocDems are in a perpetual defensive position.
Social democracy in the old sense with big welfare states financed by milking the capitalist economy will never really return as a viable option. But the movement keeps pretending that it can and keeps moving to the right ceding more and more territory to the neo-liberals. So basically they have to either accept the fact that they are social liberals or come up with an idea on how to make a market based socialism work in the real world and on a national/continental level and no-one has really been able to do that. So yeah, I don't see them pulling trough.  

Interesting analyse, and it seem rather intuitive. But here's the problem with it, it's not like the parties left of the European SocDems shows an alternative. Their solution is just transferring more money from people who work to ones who doesn't or just borrowing the money. If they instead tried to come with some suggestion for radical reforms of our societies rather than that, I would say we had a real alternative. As example we have SAS (Scandinavian Airlines, not the British special forces) which is on the way to collapse right now, here the left could suggest that the workers took over the company instead (as it's the workers SAS owes the most money to), but no there's no attempt at any solution from there either, only empty rhetoric. This is just an example, I don't demands that they should suggest that, but it would be nice, if they had some realistic idea how society in the future should work or how we should transfer the means of production to the workers.

If SocDems are ideological bankrupt it's not the only party on the left which suffer from that.
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ingemann
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 04:07:57 PM »

I'm not talking of Greece or anything.
I'm just saying than if EU doesn't work on cooperation, it will fail in the long term.

It can't continue to be a way than German corporations use to racket other countries.

German companies treat the Euro zone as what it is, a common market with a single currency. The solution is not that Germans should be forced to lower their productivity, but that other countries either raise their productivity or find areas where they do better than the Germans. If the German productivity fell enough to make Greece or Spain competitive on the German market, it would not lead to increase imports to Germany from Spain, it would lead to increased imports from China.


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ingemann
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Posts: 4,370


« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2012, 04:00:29 PM »

I'm not talking of Greece or anything.
I'm just saying than if EU doesn't work on cooperation, it will fail in the long term.

It can't continue to be a way than German corporations use to racket other countries.

German companies treat the Euro zone as what it is, a common market with a single currency. The solution is not that Germans should be forced to lower their productivity, but that other countries either raise their productivity or find areas where they do better than the Germans. If the German productivity fell enough to make Greece or Spain competitive on the German market, it would not lead to increase imports to Germany from Spain, it would lead to increased imports from China.




No.
German companies are using European regulations to kill any concurrence, or to racket it, like with REACh, in which the German chemical industry forces the other businesses to pay them forture to have to right to transport their products in Europe.

German racket and other unfair methods are unacceptable.

I just read a short summary on REACH, and it seems like a relatively sensible regulation. In what way is it not and in what way does any one country profit from it "unfairly"?

I'm with Franzl here, I fail to see precisely how REACH create a racket.
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