can we talk about the aliens

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's a perfectly good explanation and also coherent. What he's saying is that this sort of thing happens often and it never amounts to anything, so there's no reason to believe it this time without some convincing reason to think this time might be different. To be polite, he's suggesting it could be an unidentified human aircraft rather than positing that the claimants are 1. lying or 2. crazy.

That's nothinq more than a boilerplate "standard arqument to debunk fanciful claims" that is usually appropriate, sure, but how does it explain any of this? Literally any of it at all? This isn't "people active in the air and don't want others to know about it." Seriously did you even read this:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This information:

1. was publicly released by the US Navy
2. was provided by a skilled pilot of sound mind and judqement
3. was entirely corroborated by his winqman, also a skilled pilot of sound mind and judqement
4. perfectly matches a report anonymously released ten years aqo (shortly after the event in question)
5. includes literal video footaqe of the event in question

I think the usual line here is 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof'.

What all the above amount to is 'some credible witnesses reported seeing something really strange'. That's enough to establish that they saw something, but tells us nothing about the ultimate cause.


Personal anecdote: I once spent over an hour on the interstate in the Great Plains chasing a hovering silver UFO. No matter what I did, it stayed in front of me, sometimes moving up or down, wobbling a little left or right, sometimes looking closer or farther away.  At time it seemed quite high in the air, others just ten or twenty degrees above the horizon.

I finally caught up to it. It was the sun reflecting off the polished rear door of a semi ahead of me on the road, with the light bent by air conditions, including the heat coming off the road. If I hadn't caught up to the semi, and watched as the UFO resolved into it, I'd still wonder wtf I'd seen and I'd tell people about my 'UFO' and not 'this cool mirage I saw on the highway'.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Holy hell, how many "true believers" do we have here?

I try to go wherever the evidence goes.  As far as I'm concerned, the "true believers" are those who automatically believe the UFO debunkers even when the claim from the debunkers is 'weather balloons.'

sometimes it is just a weather balloon, as in Roswell.  I strongly suggest reading Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan.

The old television comedy program Gilligan's Island did an episode where the castaways (except for the Professor) thought they saw a space ship but it turned out to be a weather balloon.  That was either series creator Sherwood Schwartz mocking those who believe in UFOs or mocking Carl Sagan (and J Allen Hynek.)  Of course, Hynek ended up believing in the 'UFOs are real and they are space aliens theory.'

I'm actually not sure why you are so quick to dismiss the possibility of UFOs and space aliens.  There are some theoretical physicists who believe that faster than speed of light travel is possible, and if that is true, there is zero reason why space aliens flying UFOs around earth could not be real.

The reason why people dismiss the possibility that UFOs are space aliens is because it's based on deeply flawed reasoning.

The way actual learning, science, investigation, etc works is that you find something, and then examine it in detail. You make testable hypotheses and then follow through. You accumulate evidence.

What you DO NOT do is make a baseless conclusion like jumping from  "there are things in the sky we can't identify" to "they must be space aliens!" and then twist every bit of data in support of the preconceived conclusion. It's as ludicrous as saying, "we don't completely understand geophysical processes" and then using every earthquake as evidence that Cthulhu is real.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I suspect for you it would require actually seeing a UFO on the ground with the aliens outside it yourself with the aliens having to do something humans can't do even as magic tricks.

For me, that would probably be enough. If that's all that happened, I would consider other possibilities as well. But I cannot deny if this happened I would most likely find myself leading strongly to an alien hypothesis.

Exactly.  So, that's basically my point with with and (probably) dead0man here.  Virtually nothing would convince you that aliens exist and are visiting earth.  The issue then becomes: is there any point in having a discussion with a person who will simply end up replying to everything either 'that doesn't prove anything' or 'that isn't sufficient evidence.'?

Alien biologial sample results published by a reputable lab.

Intelligible signals of non-human origin.

Clear and detailed images of a craft demonstratably not of human origin.

Alien cultists are of the same class as Trump cultists. They want to believe, so they'll take their beliefs over rational thought very tiem.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Contrary to the credulous morons who love to feel persecuted for their delusions (I mean the alien nutters, not Trumpers), the search for alien life and intelligence is NOT something that the scientific community rejects out of hand. For example:


Breakthrough Listen to Observe Interstellar Object ‘Oumuamua

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Breakthrough Listen Releases Initial Results and Data from Observations of 'Oumuamua

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's all a very revealing look into the minds of the UFO loons. First, they get upset that everyone doesn't agree that "we saw something and don't know what it was" = "aliens are here". And then they have to invent from scratch a conspiracy where the whole scientific community is working against them.

The root cause is the same: they just don't like the true answers, so they'd rather live in a world of their own delusions. To quote the President of the United States, "Sad!"

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Just going to throw this out there (more background from the fighter pilot incident reportied earlier). Read it all before you make a judgement but understand that all of these were professional pilots, fire control, and other assigned US Navy personnel.

https://fightersweep.com/1460/x-files-edition/

The problem here is a fundamental disconnect.

No one is actually disputing that some reliable military guys saw (and got some records) of something they couldn't explain.

The disconnect (and the idiocy) comes in when some people start sharing their delusion that "something they couldn't explain" == "alien spaceships are visiting earth".

As an example, I can post an encoded snippet:

e3fOr6hCvJeDXVgwEaKzCn7dhMh6w6pjez2kTpN4vCw8DLI7xqa2UDfyWkyCR0tj2dNRuVWVsgtDOBiO
zZ5WfzWUHyYA0cK2sHBARrxMfFkNCUHuVskRRSmD2vuVJVc4

I'll bet you can't decode that. But it does not prove anything. And if I claim it does, I'm just blowing smoke. But that is EXACTLY what UFO=aliens people are doing (unless they're just trolling).

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

PROOF!



...that rocket launches can make some really cool and strange light shows.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2017/12/22/mysterious-bright-light-stuns-californians-after-spacex-rocket-launch/978546001/

You must be logged in to read this quote.