Trump Jr./Russian lawyer meeting: Jr. knew info was part of Russian Gov effort

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

How many covert meetings with people connected to Russia are we up to for the Trump campaign as a whole now? A dozen? Two dozen? Although I suppose when the candidate and his chief of staff have a long history of working with shady elements out of Moscow, that shouldn't actually be surprising.

I think the ball we have to keep an eye on here is that illicit meetings with shady Russian-affiliated individuals (and the attempted cover up of those meetings), while highly suspect, is just one of many ways in which Trump is a wretched excuse for a President.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Republicans are literally profiting from demolishing healthcare in the US, yet we'll yell a bit more about Russia.

Newsflash: People are concerned with keeping  their jobs than the Russia hysteria. There's people working two or three jobs who still aren't making enough, yet you'll scream about Russia till the moon falls into the damn sea. Seriously, the solution to everything is Russia, it seems. Dems lost an election? Russia. Bernie Sanders saying you need to move left or you'll keep losing? Russia sympathiser. Stub your toe getting out of bed in the morning? Russia. That's the level it's gotten to.

People are worried about their jobs. People are worried about their healthcare. People are worried about putting food on their tables. Yet, Democrats won't hammer Trump on these issues because it means giving ground to the left, so they keep screaming "RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA" every time something goes wrong. If 2018 doesn't go well for the Democrats, I guarantee that they'll blame Russia, the left, or both.

Start focusing on the damn issues already. Talk about healthcare, the minimum wage, Wall Street reform, etc. Democrats are better on those issues than Republicans are. But no, that means the left gets a foothold in the party, and we can't  have that. Gotta protect Booker and the other Third Wayers.

Mostly sums up how I feel. I don't think Trump's attempted collusion with Russians (and possibly the Russian government)  should get a pass.  But it should be quite possible to pursue the investigation into Russiagate and Trump's other gross violations of his oath of office, while still being a functional opposition party. (Ideally a left-leaning one.)

In other words, focusing on Russia and ignoring progressive issues is a deliberate choice by Dem leadership.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

He will dismiss it as #fakenews

Fox News hosts have recently shifted their rhetoric on Russia from "No collusion" to "Well technically it wouldn't be a crime even if he did." I think they'll go on to reference the infamous October surprise conspiracy theory and tie Trump to Reagan in this regard. Trump played Russia like Reagan played Iran! What a beast! Libcucks 0 Republicans 1

For those wondering: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Surprise_conspiracy_theory

Yeah, the rats are now abandoning "you can't prove the Trump campaign conspired with the Russians" with haste, and pretending they were never there. I see them carrying goalposts to "it wasn't illegal", "Russia didn't rig the vote" (never seriously presented), and "Trump isn't a Russian intelligence asset".

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

No law breaking activities that I've read about here.  Bad optics, but that's nothing new.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20 may apply here. 

Withholding the information from his security clearance forms is clearly a violation of the law.

Also, hacking computers and stealing emails are crimes under U.S. law.  If a person goes to a fence and offers to buy a TV they know or suspect is stolen, they are also guilty of receiving stolen goods.  This situation is analogous.

And keep in mind, this is just what he admitted to. Given that Trump's circle has lied about everything so far, it's perfectly reasonable to ask just how incriminating was the meeting, in order for admitting to attempted (and likely illegal) collusion with a possible Russian government agent to seem like a good idea.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump Jr. lawyers up:

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So how long before we learn about Futerfas' own connections to Russia, the Kremlin, or Putin?

Edit: Not long apparently.

Futerfas was the defense lawyer for convicted Russian cybercriminal Nikita Kuzmin.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/tech/russian-creator-of-malware-ordered-to-pay-6-9-million/story-PdsnU3uCca7vIkP54xImoL.html

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At least he's got experience on relevant cases.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

You have to give them credit for pulling out all the stops to win. This is pretty darn good scheming.

Except for the "getting caught and exposed as traitors" bit.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

So when is the Trump campaign going to release their emails?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Are you all serious?

[img deleted for space]

"If it's what you say I love it, especially later in the summer." Trump Jr. explicitly was advising Goldstone to drop info closer to the election. Like, what sort of person's reaction to "...s part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump" isn't immediately contacting the FBI?

This stuff is ridiculously incriminating, and he CCed Manafort and Kushner on the whole chain.

Wait, what is this "Crown Prosecutor of Russia" business? Is he referring to the Prosecutor-General, I think it is?

Perhaps he's a relative of the Nigerian Prince Trump Jr. had been corresponding with?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Basically, Trump's best defense is that he was too unimportant for Putin to ever bother with him (unlike Tillerson), and that he was at best someone who only consorted with provincial oligarchs (which is what Trump, sans reality show, essentially is himself). I can't imagine him going for this argument even if it'd save him. That said, it's entirely reasonable to expect that Trump's value in the Kremlin's eyes, boosted by the potentials of his vanity and indecorousness, increased once he started leading in the primaries.

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https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-07-11/trump-s-low-level-russian-connection

It's plausible. But I don't think that "I was trading favors with a less important group of semi-official Russians who were trading dirt on Hillary for a much smaller payoff" is going to be a stellar defense.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://www.axios.com/inside-the-white-house-scramble-on-the-trump-jr-emails-2457466929.html

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In the grand scheme of things, I would not all mind seeing criminal charges over surveillance. But Trump trying to do something like this in response to getting caught conspiring with Russians over the election red-handed? It'll be such a blatant distraction and power-grab, it'll make firing Comey look like a good idea that went well.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

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So he just casually hangs out with so many Russians that he can't remember that he had ever met them at all?

Given the amount of shady Russian money pumped into Trump enterprises over the years, this seems entirely plausible.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

It's war. Infowars, Breitbart, Drudge under FBI investigation for espionage.

https://www.infowars.com/breaking-democrats-call-for-criminal-investigation-of-infowars-drudge-breitbart/

I mean, even the InfoWars headline says that "Democrats are calling for investigation," not "Infowars, etc. under investigation."

To them, its the same thing.

Guilty consciences maybe? For a long time, I really figured that was the deal with Trump. That he'd laundered some shady Russian money (and at least suspected that's what he was doing, even if he didn't really know) and maybe made a few over-exuberant promises (as he is wont to do) to people he shouldn't have. And that what was going to get him was the cover-up.

But given how the Trump-Russia thing has now gone to confirmed collaboration (at least on the Trump side) after all those denials... who knows? Maybe those awful ads they run are all actually fronts for KGB money via Russian mobsters, and all three of them are willing (but deniable) fronts for Russian infowar directed at the US. 5th Generation War, here we come?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

For anyone who hasn't bother to actually read the emails Trump Jr released (as, ironically, Del Tachi over in the thread on facts apparently has not), I've put together some of the key messages here.

The fact of the matter is, at this time, there is actually very, very little that has been established as fact in the Trump/Russia case that actually implicates the President in illegally colluding with the Russian government to undermine the American electoral process.

His son, son-in-law, and campaign manager (who is also a long-time tenant) went to a meeting for the express purposes of getting damaging information on his opponent from a foreign government. Later that evening, Trump himself promised such information was forthcoming. At the very least he is directly implicated in attempting to collude with the Russian government to intervene in the US Presidential election.

Meeting with a random lawyer from Russia who may or may not have had any intelligible information on Hillary Clinton does not demonstrate a willingness to collude with the Russian government in order to break the law.

Random lawyer from Russia =/= Russian government

It would make no difference if this lawyer was from Russia, Nigeria, Holland or Florida.

Here are key parts of the email exchange, taken from the NYT's more readable presentation. If you doubt the contents or context, feel free to look at them else where, including on Jr's own twitter.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-email-text.html
https://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/884789418455953413







This is Trump Jr, Kushner, and Manafort going to a meeting specifically to meet with someone described to them as a representative of the Russian government with damaging information on Hillary Clinton that would be provided to them by the Russian government. What she turned out to be or have is certainly relevant, but it does not change the fact than Trump's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager specifically went to a meeting where they believed they could obtain damaging information on Clinton sourced from the Russian government.  

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager specifically went to a meeting where they believed they could obtain damaging information on Clinton sourced from the Russian government.  

And?

Contrary to all the foaming at the mouth hysterics talking about this that isn't illegal, much less 'treason' as lots of unhinged lefties are claiming.

If someone walked into a bank and said to the teller "I'm robbing this place, give me all your money"  and then walked out after that didn't work....would you say "well hey, it was just him talking!"?

That's not an appropriate comparison here.

Indeed. A much more apt comparison would be someone who publicly talked about stealing from a bank to get rich, publicly talked about doing it with a teller's help, met secretly with a teller from the bank, walked into the bank when the teller was working, walked out and immediately began throwing around $100 bills, then lied about ever talking to the teller or discussing stealing from a bank. Oh, and the teller is on record as having opened the cash safe, after blocking out the security cameras. (It was totally someone else who went into the safe and blocked the cameras, according to the teller and the newly rich guy.)

Oh, but trust him, that private meeting with the teller was about the Orphans' Fund. You should totally believe him, because he publicly admitted to having a private meeting with the teller after finding out there was videotape of him meeting with the teller.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

DOJ Settled Massive Russian Fraud Case Involving Lawyer Who Met With Trump Jr.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/12/doj-settled-massive-russian-fraud-case-involving-lawyer-who-met-with-trump-jr/

Jesus.

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Says it all, really.

Does anyone care to bet how long before Trump is tied to the accused Russian money launderers he just let off the hook? (More than we already know, I mean.)

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Originally published back in May, here's is a quick overview of the Russian moneylaundering operations that potentially touch on the Trump administration:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/us-settlement-prevezon-case-raises-more-questions-trump-frydenborg

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Kushner, who omitted foreign contacts on security clearance forms, updated that list 3x "adding more than 100 names"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/12/us/politics/trump-says-son-is-innocent-amid-reports-of-russia-meeting.html

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So Kushner will be falling on his sword then?


I look forward with interest to him explaining to a jury that Trump's promising of Clinton-related info *immediately* after that meeting were completely coincidental.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

if anyone cares....Rohrabacher also met with the Kremlin lawyer.

http://ir.net/news/politics/125885/exclusive-trumprussia-expands-gop-senator-congressmen-possibly-implicated/

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And, of course, let's not forget this gem:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/house-majority-leader-to-colleagues-in-2016-i-think-putin-pays-trump/2017/05/17/515f6f8a-3aff-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html

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[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

lol at these grifters

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Please, RNC, do this. Republicans wasting their money and simultaneously tying themselves even further to the wretch faking it in the White House is a pure win for everyone else.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

NBC: Former Soviet Counter Intelligence Officer at Meeting With Donald Trump Jr. and Russian Lawyer

Don't worry! Trump Jr's lawyer says he's just this guy, you know? Totally cool, no shenanigans at all.

Who is he? No one is mentioning that on either side. 

It does hurt Trump Jr's failing credibility even more, though.

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http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/14/the-russian-lawyer-who-met-with-trump-jr-brought-an-ex-soviet-counter-intelligence-officer.html

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

And according to the "new guy" the Trumps took printed copies from the Russians.

Why would they do that if they weren't impressed?

Which new guy? The ex-Soviet officer or the other mysterious attendee Trump Jr and Kushner forgot?

Trump Jr. Attorney Confirms Sixth Person Attended Russian Lawyer Meeting

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-jr-attorney-confirms-sixth-person-attended-russian-lawyer-meeting/

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Given Trump Jr's level of recollection and accuracy to date, should we be assuming that "interpreter" means "official coordinator with the Kremlin"?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

whew...glad we cleared that up:

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/12/us/politics/trump-says-son-is-innocent-amid-reports-of-russia-meeting.html

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[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

And according to the "new guy" the Trumps took printed copies from the Russians.

Why would they do that if they weren't impressed?

Which new guy? The ex-Soviet officer or the other mysterious attendee Trump Jr and Kushner forgot?

And what's the betting that this other guy was also linked to Fusion GPS and their NeverTrump/DNC paymasters  just like Veselnitskaya and Akhmetshin?

I agree that the Fusion GPS connection in this story is weird, and I posted as much when the story broke. But I think you're looking at the connection the wrong way around. Veselnitskaya's main jobs, and the two thing she was most associated with before this whole meeting kerfuffle was as a lobbyist against the Magnitsky Act and as lawyer for Denis Katsyv, who was at the center of the greater Magnitsky case.

Katsyv was accused of receiving stolen funds from the Russian state and funneling them into a firm buying luxury Wall Street apartments. In 2013 he was charged by Preet Bharara for laundering money through a company called Hermitage Capital Management, which was founded and run by Bill Browder, a former ally of Putin who was blacklisted in 2005. In 2009, a lawyer working for Hermitage Capital Management died after being beaten and mistreated in prison on tax charges. The US in tern slapped Russia with the Magnitsky act, imposing sanctions against various Russian officials associated with the case.

The choice of Veselnitskaya to meet with the Trump campaign regardless of who sent her was almost indisputably related to her campaign against the Magnitsky Act. It doesn't make sense to send someone with her resume for any other reason. Trump Jr. himself said that discussion of the case took up a majority of the meeting, and he wouldn't have taken it had he known that was going to be the topic of discussion.

Trump Jr. is not credible, particularly in this instance. When he released the emails, he already knew the NYT had them. He has repeatedly demonstrated to be lying about other aspects of the meeting.

It almost appears as though the idea was to "come clean" about the emails, in the hope that his version of events would then be accepted across the board. Thinking that we know the topics of discussion on the basis of anything anyone involved with the meeting says would be a mistake.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Lewandowski wrongly says Trump in Florida day of Trump Tower meeting with Russian lawyer

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/jul/14/corey-lewandowski/lewandowski-wrongly-says-trump-florida-day-trump-t/

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I am starting to wonder if Trump Sr. was not at the meeting himself and Jr (and Kushner) have been attempting to cover for him. (Which would, of course, just make him look even guiltier.)

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I don't see this linked anywhere yet, so I figured I'd throw it onto the dumpster fire. (Apologies if I missed that this was already linked.)

Sen. Grassley (R-IA) wrote the Secretary of Homeland Security Kelly back in April inquiring about Rinat Akhmetshin's ties to Russian intelligence:

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https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/2017-04-04%20CEG%20to%20DHS%20(Akhmetshin%20Information)%20with%20attachment.pdf