American Jews and the ancestry question

[King of Kensington]

Unlike in Canada or Australia, the US Census Bureau doesn't count Jewish ancestry.  I'm guessing a plurality write Russian*, with good numbers writing Polish as well.  Good numbers for German, Austrian, Hungarian and Romanian as well (not to mention Israeli, Iranian or Syrian for those whose families didn't immigrate to the US from Europe).

A good number may "defy" it and write Jewish anyway or leave it blank.

* Most pre-WWI "Russian" Jews came from Ukraine or Belarus and few from Russia proper of course.

[King of Kensington]

Take a look at the long form:  they're not interested in ethno-religious identity.  You can be Jewish or Catholic or Zoroastrian, but they're more interested in the nation of origin of your ancestors.  Russia is a legit answer, as is Poland.

True, though it gets tricky with border changes, ethnic groups and the like.

For example, those descended from Germans from Russia certainly write "German" in most cases, and that's likely the case of descendants of ethnic Germans from Romania or Hungary as well.  Those descended from ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland would likely write "Austrian" I suspect, but someone with Czech roots would write "Czech."

With Jews, I guess it could go either way.  Were John Kerry's paternal ancestors - German-speaking Jews from what is now Czechoslovakia - "Austrian" or "Czech"?  

Those with roots in Galicia (Austrian Poland) could be either Austrian or Polish.

Jews in the Kingdom of Hungary - even the least assimilated Jewish communities like those in Subcarpathian Ruthenia (which went from Hungary to Czechoslovakia to Ukraine) - did have a Hungarian identity to some degree - so I suspect those with roots outside today's Hungary would report Hungarian among their ancestries.  

Most Ashkenazis of Eastern European descent I know would likely say their ancestors came from Russia or Poland.  Few will specifically say Ukraine or Belarus and I think very few write "Ukrainian" on the census.  Poland of course became an independent country after WWI, and Congress Poland was somewhat independent of the Pale of Settlement in the Russian Empire, even though that became blurred over time.

[King of Kensington]

And many Jews in Vienna came from or were descended from migrants from Bohemia and Moravia.

[King of Kensington]

Frederick Kerry's birthplace is in Moravia.

Moravian Jews remained more loyal to German, while the Czech language made more inroads among Bohemian Jews.

[King of Kensington]

In 1900, the US census made the following exceptions for country of birth:

"Write Ireland, England, Scotland or Wales rather than Great Britain.  Write Hungary or Bohemia rather than Austria for persons born in Hungary or Bohemia, respectively.  Write Finland rather than Russia for persons born in Finland."

"In case the person speaks Polish, as Poland is not now a country, inquire whether the birthplace was what is now known as German Poland or Austrian Poland or Russian Poland, and enter the answer accordingly as Poland (Ger.), Poland (Aust)., or Poland (Russ)."

"If the birthplace reported in Canada or Newfoundland, ask whether the person is of French or English descent.  Write Canada English or Canada French, according to the answer."

[King of Kensington]

In 1900, the US census made the following exceptions for country of birth:

"Write Ireland, England, Scotland or Wales rather than Great Britain.  Write Hungary or Bohemia rather than Austria for persons born in Hungary or Bohemia, respectively.  Write Finland rather than Russia for persons born in Finland."

"In case the person speaks Polish, as Poland is not now a country, inquire whether the birthplace was what is now known as German Poland or Austrian Poland or Russian Poland, and enter the answer accordingly as Poland (Ger.), Poland (Aust)., or Poland (Russ)."

"If the birthplace reported in Canada or Newfoundland, ask whether the person is of French or English descent.  Write Canada English or Canada French, according to the answer."

Which means Jews from Poland wouldn't get a Polish birthplace in 1900, since they didn't speak Polish.  The bulk would have been Yiddish speakers from "Russia" and "Austria."  Jews from Posen would have spoken German by then.

[King of Kensington]

As a result, probably German has become undercounted for some time.

I'm almost certain that English ancestry is far more undercounted than German ancestry. 

[King of Kensington]

In 1980, English ancestry was the largest group in the US at 50 million.  By 2000 it had dropped to 32 million I think.

Even with massive 19th century German immigration, English would have had a massive head start (and something like 60% of whites in 1790 were of English descent I believe). 

[King of Kensington]

This may help with the initial question I posed:

http://research.policyarchive.org/10031.pdf

[King of Kensington]

There were 25 million white Americans in 1900 who were immigrants or had at least one immigrant parent (out of 67 million).  8 million were of German birth or parentage.  The Third generation from the 19th century immigration + Germans from Russia + descendants of colonial era Germans wouldn't have outnumbered the 8 million first and second generation immigrants from Germany.  I don't see how it could have been larger than the population of English ancestry at the time. 

It seems reasonable to estimate that half of white Americans at the time could trace some ancestry to the colonial period, and a majority of that group would have had at least some English ancestry.   Plus there was immigration from England and many Canadians of English descent as well that came in the 19th century.  There had to have been at least 20-25 million Americans with some English ancestry then. 

[King of Kensington]

Though maybe the discussion of this should return here?:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=172392.0

[King of Kensington]

Some Canadian data (2011), where religion is included in the census and Jewish is recognized as an ethnic origin as well.  

Of the 329,500 declaring a Jewish religion, here are the most common ethnic origin responses:

Jewish  206,525
Polish  70,765
Russian  69,440
Canadian  44,095
English  22,245
Romanian  16,825
Israeli  15,010*
German  14,655
Hungarian  14,205
Moroccan  12,485
Ukrainian  12,120

So while a majority of those declaring Jewish religion also declare Jewish ethnicity, many write other responses as well.  "Canadian" and "English" responses are likely those from intermarried families (and unlike in the US with "American" multiple "Canadian" responses are counted).

* Israeli is too small to get the religious breakdown, but obviously an overwhelmingly Jewish group.