Hamas leader is killed (user search)
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  Hamas leader is killed (search mode)
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Author Topic: Hamas leader is killed  (Read 12282 times)
M
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Posts: 2,491


« on: March 23, 2004, 08:27:01 PM »

Sheik is the English.

This is why Israel sticks by the Sharon coalition, for all its many flaws and failures: Arik is not afraid to actually DO something. Sure, it has to be in his own method and on his own schedule, but still.

Hamas is in trouble leadershipwise (I think Abdel Aziz Rantisi will take over, though), but they do have a major recruiting argument. Still, they'll take time getting back on their feet. The question is, what will Jerusalem do with this moment of weakness in the terrorists' front?
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M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2004, 12:19:16 AM »

To clarify, sheik is a fairly generic Arabic tital, not a name; Yassin's first name wa in fact Ahmed.

If they could, siege, they would. Tourism Minister Rechavam Ze'evi remains the only Israeli govt figure murdered by targeted killing in a 3.5 year so far intifada, however, so it seems unlikely that they have these capabilities.

In fact, historically terrorists have been less, not more, effective immediately after strong Israeli reprisals, and most grimly successful after 2-3 month lulls and Israeli withdrawals/ negotiations.
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M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2004, 03:02:22 PM »

Seige seemed to assume sheik was his name.

Gustaf, Hamas is a major PLO member, as are Islamic Jihad-Palestine, PFLP-GC, and many others noxious terrorist groups. I assume you meant the PA, the recognized pseudo-independent Palestinian government, and its "police" militias. The definition between these two institutions is somewhat blurry, as Arafat leads both, but the PLO is, and only claims to be, a terrorist umbrella group, while the PA is semi-legitimate (long as you don't worry about things like democracy and accountability.)
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M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2004, 03:53:22 PM »

That does seem to be a fairly sensible solution, but it is much easier said than done.
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M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2004, 04:03:23 PM »

The preferred word is settlements. Some of these are quite near the Green line and are large in population (sometinmes dozens of thousands), so it is a reasonable argument that Israel annex some border territories. Also, East Jerusalem is fully integrated into Israel, votes in elections, etc., and the city has been officially Israel's "eternal, undivided" capital for decades. That is unlikely to be ended anytime soon.

A plurality of Israeli politicians these days more or less would like to ditch the territories, and are finding that, unlikely as it would seem at face value, the Palestinians are bent on prolonging the occupation so they can cry bloody murder about Israeli oppression. So the question becomes, how do you force self-rule on them regardless?
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M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2004, 04:39:57 PM »

Mostly I like Realpolitik's idea, but it would be a sliver of the Negev, at most as large as Gaza itself. Soem parts of the Negev are Jewish or pro-Israel Bedouin, and Be'er Sheva and Eilat are large, 95+% Jewish cities.
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M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2004, 05:58:51 PM »

Israel is completely dominated by religious values? You are clearly confused about this. Israel's Jews are about 60% secular, 20% somewhat observant, and only 20% very observant. A major party and one of Sharon's coaltion partners, Shinui, is a specifically secularist, anti-religious party. The parties of the Left are generally secularist, and and Likud, Ichud Le'umi, and even Mafdal are not religious so much as nationalist. The specifically religious parties currently have a grand total of 14 of 120 Knesset seats.

As for dogmatic, what has Israel not tried? War, peace, occupation, withdrawal, negotiation at gunpoint and in luxury at European palaces, American mediation, European mediation, you name it.

Sabra and Shatila, as dunn points out, was a massacre by Lebanese Christians of Palestinian Muslims. no Israelis or Jews were involved. Or are you trying to pin Jenin massace on him, because that was a battle, not a massacre, just like Deir Yassin was.

Who does the selection? The best intelligence services in the world, buddy: the Mossad and ShinBet.
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M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2004, 11:07:02 PM »

For the last time, his name was not sheik!
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M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2004, 04:18:16 PM »

Syrian tanks intervened and seized at least 1/3 of Jordan. But, they were painted in PLO colors, and were claimed to be PLO tanks with Syrian volunteers or something ridiculous like that. And, of course, they were actually Soviet tanks.
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M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2004, 09:08:26 PM »

The Mossad is not charged with protecting Jewish Institutions Worldwide, only the state of Israel. Really it shows the weakness of Argentine security services, the reach of Hezbollah and Iranian terror, or, some would say, Menem's ties to certain unsavory Islamic figures.
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M
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,491


« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2004, 09:58:41 PM »

Governments should not have the right to kill random people. But remember, this is several hundred body bags later. And it will most likely end up saving lives in the long run. This is the same reason I think Truman was right to nuke Japan, and Chamberlain was wrong to start the war early. In the long run, this would have saved lives.
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