Teen births up for first time in 15 years (user search)
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  Teen births up for first time in 15 years (search mode)
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Author Topic: Teen births up for first time in 15 years  (Read 8763 times)
Bono
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« on: December 06, 2007, 01:08:40 PM »

If it's caused by abstinence education, why is the effect only registering now? This is one of the most ridiculous post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacies I've seen in my life. Hume laughs at you.
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Bono
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2007, 02:37:43 PM »

If it's caused by abstinence education, why is the effect only registering now? This is one of the most ridiculous post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacies I've seen in my life. Hume laughs at you.

Your use of philosophical jargon isn't going to sway anybody.

There are two trains of thought in the U.S. regarding sex education:

One accepts that teenagers have always and will always have sex at a fairly young age because the body becomes able to do it, and that humans can generally figure out what gets put into where when it comes to sex without education... so contraceptives and safe sex are promoted to minimize unwanted pregnancies and the spread of STDs.

The other side reads their sex education out of the Bible and tries to force all teenagers in PUBLIC schools to adopt a moralistic abstinence only approach.  This clearly is not working.

All of the indicators for a rise in teen birth rates are in place now:  The poor are getting poorer and they're not being educated about safe sex, so they're making poor choices and unwanted pregnancies are the result.

You can try to blame it on whatever you like... Religion should have no bearing in sex education inside public schools.  If you want to teach abstinence only sex ed., then teach it at home or in Sunday School.

And MODU:  Perhaps sex is glamorous and being a virgin is uncool.   But that is not going to change.  Why in the hell would we simply ignore that fact and continue down a path of teaching young people to be ignorant of steps they can take to keep themselves safe?

While your anti-intellectualism is very amusing, as is your attempt to shift the burden of proof unto me, I don't fall for such a cheap ploy. Abstinence only education has been a staple for a few years now. Why did this number only change now? It is up to you to establish causation, not for me to prove that there is none.
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Bono
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Posts: 11,704
United Kingdom


« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2007, 03:46:32 PM »

If it's caused by abstinence education, why is the effect only registering now? This is one of the most ridiculous post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacies I've seen in my life. Hume laughs at you.

Your use of philosophical jargon isn't going to sway anybody.

There are two trains of thought in the U.S. regarding sex education:

One accepts that teenagers have always and will always have sex at a fairly young age because the body becomes able to do it, and that humans can generally figure out what gets put into where when it comes to sex without education... so contraceptives and safe sex are promoted to minimize unwanted pregnancies and the spread of STDs.

The other side reads their sex education out of the Bible and tries to force all teenagers in PUBLIC schools to adopt a moralistic abstinence only approach.  This clearly is not working.

All of the indicators for a rise in teen birth rates are in place now:  The poor are getting poorer and they're not being educated about safe sex, so they're making poor choices and unwanted pregnancies are the result.

You can try to blame it on whatever you like... Religion should have no bearing in sex education inside public schools.  If you want to teach abstinence only sex ed., then teach it at home or in Sunday School.

And MODU:  Perhaps sex is glamorous and being a virgin is uncool.   But that is not going to change.  Why in the hell would we simply ignore that fact and continue down a path of teaching young people to be ignorant of steps they can take to keep themselves safe?

While your anti-intellectualism is very amusing, as is your attempt to shift the burden of proof unto me, I don't fall for such a cheap ploy. Abstinence only education has been a staple for a few years now. Why did this number only change now? It is up to you to establish causation, not for me to prove that there is none.

For a few years now?  I was in high school not all that long ago and we were taught comprehensive sex education.  It takes a little while for the full effect to be seen because these programs were not implemented overnight.

And don't accuse me of "anti-intellectualism".  I'm not the one putting my pastoral religious views in a pretty box and trying to come off as looking intelligent.
What views. I did not express any views on this thread aside from pointing out a ridiculous logical fallacy.

And there is no proving it to you, Bono.  You won't change your mind.  You're pretty rigid.  The fact that after over a decade of declining crime, a few years after the Bush administration came in with rising income disparities, crusades against contraceptives and comprehensive sex ed., I am not at all surprised that crime is rising as well as teen birth rates.

If you can't see the elephant trampling everything down in the room, then I certainly won't be able to convince you.


LOL, that is completely laughable. So, you just point to a correlation and assume causation without bothering to establish any causal relationship because there's no proving it to me? Grow some logical thinking please.
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