Is salvation primarily based upon luck?

[afleitch]

It's a good question and some faiths and denominations answer it better than others. Though this is always worth consideration at the first instance.

When Gentiles who do not have the law keep it as by instinct, these men although without the law serve as a law for themselves. They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts. Their conscience bears witness together with the law, and their thoughts will accuse or defend them on the day when, in accordance with the gospel I preach, God will pass judgment on the secrets of men through Jesus Christ Paul 2:14-16

[afleitch]

It's a good question and some faiths and denominations answer it better than others. Though this is always worth consideration at the first instance.

When Gentiles who do not have the law keep it as by instinct, these men although without the law serve as a law for themselves. They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts. Their conscience bears witness together with the law, and their thoughts will accuse or defend them on the day when, in accordance with the gospel I preach, God will pass judgment on the secrets of men through Jesus Christ Paul 2:14-16

The book of Paul?

Sorry. Romans.

[afleitch]

Catholicism and salvation is often the subject of misunderstanding; i.e some take the view that Catholics apparently do everything but accept Jesus as the only path to salvation. Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God John 3:3. Now as I've said before, a fair point can be made regarding the vailidity of infant baptism etc, but the sacrament of confirmation (a 'more perfect bond') which, while not intended to be a run-through of the gifts and grace granted in baptism pretty much covers that if that is what is required. We also place an emphasis on works. There is no assurance of salvation just because you believe but you live the life of a bastard, nor are you cast aside because you err (and if you do you can confess your sins)

It's quite difficult actually, as a Catholic to be cast aside and actually loose the chance of salvation. Even after death you get a chance. There is no point in going from crime to punishment without 'arbitration' in between. But you do have to work for it and you do have to want it.

[afleitch]

I believe those who have never heard the saving message of Jesus -- and those who have heard, but have not understood it for whatever reason -- are judged eternally on the basis of what they do know and understand.  The Father of Jesus is a Father of mercy.

Now those who have heard the message of Jesus, understood it and rejected it?  I have to leave that matter in God's more capable hands.  But I would prefer that they surrendered on this issue and entered the Savior's embrace.

One thing is sure.  Christians enjoy the sport of separating the Saints from the Ain'ts far too much. 

I agree with yourself and Soulty here. Salvation should not be an epic 'herculean' task, it is about knowing and acting not just believing and it should never be exclusive, it should never be yours just to 'have' or presume to 'have' (or to start dictating to others how you get it!)

God is mercy and a merciful God does not cast someone into damnation or salvation at the end of their days without 'due process.' And I always like the legal analogy here, if you commit a crime you are not punished without due process in which you are then answerable to the law. Why should we have a democracy in life but an authoritarian God in death? I believe that death is when God is revealed to you whether you believe in him in life or not. And if it takes you until that moment to accept him, then he will show you mercy. But if you accepted him in life, and his revelation is a confirmation of what you knew to be true but you did everything contrary to what he wished for you, then don't expect to stroll through the pearly gates just because you 'believed.' But even then, and I do believe in purgatory, you get the chance to make good and if you were loved in life then as a Catholic I pray for the souls of the dead so that they can be closer to God. They may already be there, but who are we to know?

For those who don;t know God or believe in God, he is the 'creator.' Now this doesn't mean he is a creationist and the process of evolution is entirely compatable with God's role, but he is the one who established nature, and love and emotion and kindness and every facet of the known universe. If you respect him through what he created, even if you do not know him then you still get the chance. In short, if you do what is expected of you without knowing God, you still get the chance to accept him when your time here is up.

So says me anyways

[afleitch]

Just to let people know I am a tad 'up' on prescription drugs to combat bad hayfever so I am a lot more 'poetic' than usual. I'm finger tapping more than finger jabbing at the moment

I'll edit myself in the morning.