UK General Discussion

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Vote coming up

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Aye 98
Naw 15
Abstentions 5
Not Present 10
Vacant 1

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Kudos to Elaine Smith for voting in the appropriate manner considering the make-up of her constituency and probably also her CLP.

Given that the Social Attitudes Survey suggest support at 55% amongst Scottish Catholics (and in some polls higher; i'm intentionally being modest here) I was brought up in one of the most Catholic towns in Scotland and can assure you she's not really got her finger on the pulse.

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Anyway; here are the No's

Allan, Dr Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Brown, Gavin (Lothian) (Con)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
Don, Nigel (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fergusson, Alex (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Johnstone, Alex (North East Scotland) (Con)
Lyle, Richard (Central Scotland) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
McGrigor, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Milne, Nanette (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Smith, Elaine (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)

And the abstainers

Brodie, Chic (South Scotland) (SNP)
MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Malik, Hanzala (Glasgow) (Lab)
McMahon, Michael (Uddingston and Bellshill) (Lab)
McMahon, Siobhan (Central Scotland) (Lab)

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Well, congrats to those who had the balls to vote against it (especially the Labour MSP).

I'm afraid quite literally, she is ball-less.

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Ah crap.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/08/wont-go-back-to-creationist-zoo-bristol

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To say I don't care about constituency polls carried out eighteen months before a general election is an understatement.

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Keir Starmer - who was the DPP until earlier this year - is to advise Labour on changing the law to protect victims of rape and sexual abuse. This is also generally being seen as the first step of an entry into politics.

Better not tweet a joke about it...

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How dare the Tories reach their 2% inflation target.

Cost of living...something...bankers...something...bedroom tax..something something miners.

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Roger Lloyd Pack died. Which is strangely sad.

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William Hague is in Scotland today to talk about why Scotland should stay in the union. I need say nothing else.

Though I will; Jim Murphy won't share a podium with the Tories when it comes to defending the Union. Better Together infighting would be very very helpful at this stage in the race.

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It's not likely to happen with current polling.

Neither was an SNP victory four weeks before polling day in 2011!

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That's a point to remember, of course. Voters are quite capable of changing their minds. An obvious counter point to it, though, would be that was a low turnout legislative election, while this will be (presumably) a high turnout referendum on a major constitutional change.

As a 'Yes' supporter I don't think we will win but what is important is trying to secure a robust enough Yes turnout to ensure that it's reasonably close as that gives more clout in securing further devolved powers. Though recent goings on in the No brigade give me hope, particularly as we get closer.

The problem of course is that independence in the London media is treated as all Scottish things are; with general suspicion, or scrutinised as having some ulterior motive. The truth is  for me there is a need to escape not 'England' (because it's already been decided that Wales and Northern Ireland don't matter in this phoney war of attrition), but London and the south east which sucks the economic, social and cultural life out of the rest of Britain. I think that people in Manchester and Newcastle and Liverpool have no power over themselves and very little say (even when they send hoards of Labour MP's to sit in Labour governments) in how the country is run which is disgraceful. 'Englishness' and 'Britishness', whatever it means in any given year can only keep people in line for so long. Scotland therefore can't leave because it shatters the whole notion of a UK, much more than Ireland leaving did, because as far as Britain was concerned, the 'better part' of Ireland remained. It leaves the North exposed and may leave them both hungry and wanting.

And UKIP; as flash in the pan as they will be. Is there anything that personifies the political and social gap between Scotland and the south east more than that collection of solidified piss?

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That's a point to remember, of course. Voters are quite capable of changing their minds. An obvious counter point to it, though, would be that was a low turnout legislative election, while this will be (presumably) a high turnout referendum on a major constitutional change.

As a 'Yes' supporter I don't think we will win but what is important is trying to secure a robust enough Yes turnout to ensure that it's reasonably close as that gives more clout in securing further devolved powers. Though recent goings on in the No brigade give me hope, particularly as we get closer.

The problem of course is that independence in the London media is treated as all Scottish things are; with general suspicion, or scrutinised as having some ulterior motive. The truth is  for me there is a need to escape not 'England' (because it's already been decided that Wales and Northern Ireland don't matter in this phoney war of attrition), but London and the south east which sucks the economic, social and cultural life out of the rest of Britain. I think that people in Manchester and Newcastle and Liverpool have no power over themselves and very little say (even when they send hoards of Labour MP's to sit in Labour governments) in how the country is run which is disgraceful. 'Englishness' and 'Britishness', whatever it means in any given year can only keep people in line for so long. Scotland therefore can't leave because it shatters the whole notion of a UK, much more than Ireland leaving did, because as far as Britain was concerned, the 'better part' of Ireland remained. It leaves the North exposed and may leave them both hungry and wanting.

And UKIP; as flash in the pan as they will be. Is there anything that personifies the political and social gap between Scotland and the south east more than that collection of solidified piss?

I think, however, that people from London and the South more generally see the rest of the country in similarly negative terms to how the rest see the south; in other words, a constant drag. Not, neccessarily my view, but I do occasionally sympathise with it.

Though if the country north of Watford magically disappeared the taps and the plug sockets would run dry

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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/10/public-money-private-wealth-london-north-v-south

Not often I agree, but I can't really fault this.

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Media oversimplification. There would be no way of preventing a hypothetical independent Scotland from using the pound as its currency. But the SNP have argued (and planned for, etc) that there will be a proper currency union between hypothetical independent Scotland and hypothetical R-UK. That would depend on the agreement of both hypothetical governments.

Scotland could tie it's currency to whatever it wants to. Hypothetically the government is simply offering a deal to work with the rest of the UK for a transition, particularly when dealing with debt which legally we could simply walk away from. What won't be discussed in public of course is that such a mutual arrangement is good for the economic stability of the UK, particularly if a 10th of it's economy is wrenched out overnight

In other news;

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/yes-does-not-mean-yes.23438016

'The planned Independence Day of March 24, 2016, will not happen, leaving the current set-up as the "default option", unless negotiations between Edinburgh and London are completed satisfactorily, according to one of Prime Minister David Cameron's most senior colleagues.

The controversial view - dismissed by Alex Salmond as breathtaking, irresponsible and contemptuous of the democratic process in Scotland - came as the three main Westminster parties formed a united front to rule out the First Minister's centrepiece proposal for a currency union between an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK.'

Which is beautifully disturbing.

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I fail to see how annoying Scots is supposed to be a good strategy against them leaving.

I demand frequent visits by top Tories to Scotland in the weeks leading up to the vote

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Dr Death himself, yes.

That's what senility does to you I suppose.

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UKIP won't win a seat in 2015 because they'll believe their own hype and think they are running a national campaign. They will also think their opponents in areas where they might have a chance are 'Tories' rather than acknowledge that they are individual MP's with different strengths and weaknesses.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-26482599

Curious.

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An interesting narrative has came out about the nature of the relationship between Roy Jenkins and Tony Crosland.

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So, are we assuming he's on the frontbench not long after the election?

If he curries favour with the new leader, who knows?

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So, are we assuming he's on the frontbench not long after the election?

If he curries favour with the new leader, who knows?

Well, Ed Milliband was definitely helped by Neil Kinnock's support during the leadership race. I think it's quite likely that Ed would reward the Kinnocks with a cushy frontbench job.

I mean Labour's next leader. After the election

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I feel sorry for Clegg. People have been conditioned to hate him so much they give the benefit of the doubt to a dangerous politician like Farage.

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MSP Margo Macdonald has died.