Arkansas GOPer: We'll take the country back from Obama and the minorities! (user search)
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  Arkansas GOPer: We'll take the country back from Obama and the minorities! (search mode)
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Author Topic: Arkansas GOPer: We'll take the country back from Obama and the minorities!  (Read 13699 times)
BigSkyBob
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« on: February 02, 2013, 12:48:51 AM »

Again we witness the specter of intellectually dishonest misquoting.

He said,

"And we're not going to allow minorities to run roughshod over what you people believe in."

You inserted a "the" before "minorities" and deliberately juxaposed it next to "Obama" to twist his remarks into a racial comment.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 12:54:21 AM »

Love how the crowd cheers the loudest after the 'minorities' part.

Talk about showing your true colors.

Why shouldn't the crowd be free to cheer to their hearts content? If in your own mind you believe that you represent the viewpoint of the majority, why would you allow any minority viewpoint to dominate you?
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 12:55:52 AM »

Arkansas = Political fail state. Horrible old Dixie Democratic party, horrible theocratic Post-Gingrich GOP. What a c-bomb this man his. Throw him out the Slavery Abolitionist movement descendant. If he's not primaried the state committee should do all they can to remove him from the ballot.

Why?
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2013, 01:03:11 AM »

It does us no favors to pretend that hard-line conservatives aren't often racist.


Some "hard-line conservatives" might very well be "racist." Then again, some "hard-line liberals" might very well be "racist." But, such speculation has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Certain posters chose to view his remarks through the filter of race. That choice reflects on them, and, them alone.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 01:05:42 AM »

It does us no favors to pretend that hard-line conservatives aren't often racist.
True, but it also does us no favors to pretend that racists are often hard-line conservatives.

But, that simply isn't true.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 01:10:49 AM »

Republicans have a race issues, as well as several other issues. Some Republicans make outright racist comments, some are passive aggressive about making them and the rest just don't criticize the fringe, so they won't upset that faction of the party.

And, Democrats have race issues, as well as several other issues. Some Democrats make outright racist comments, some are passive aggressive about making them, and, the rest just don't criticize the fringe, so they won't upset that faction of the party. I would cite the treatment of Louis Farrakhan as an example.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 10:40:32 PM »

Again we witness the specter of intellectually dishonest misquoting.

He said,

"And we're not going to allow minorities to run roughshod over what you people believe in."

You inserted a "the" before "minorities" and deliberately juxtaposed it next to "Obama" to twist his remarks into a racial comment.

Are you f-ing kidding?


No. His accusation has no substance no matter how much it is couched in the rhetoric of The Emperor and His New Clothes.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 10:42:13 PM »

Why don't we ban BS Bob so he can post full time on Stormfront? I think we will be doing him a favor.

Resorting to accuse the accuser tactics won't alter the basic fact that a perfectly legitimate statement was twisted into a racial statement for purely partisan purposes.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 10:50:08 PM »

Oh, and for the record, the SPLC has Louis Farrakhan on its s**t list.  (Perhaps it's debatable whether or not the SPLC is a 'liberal' organization... I think it's pretty obvious that it is, though), but in no way are the Democrats buddy-buddy with him.

You are changing standards. The standard that was asserted is that some folks in the Republican party "just don't criticize the fringe, so they won't upset that faction of the party."  Well, the exact same thing is true of Democrats concerning Louis Farrakhan and a number of other people. Maybe the SPLC has stated the obvious about Louis Farrakhan,  but, that simply doesn't excuse the large number of elected Democrats who have not.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2013, 11:27:32 PM »

Why don't we ban BS Bob so he can post full time on Stormfront? I think we will be doing him a favor.

I really don't know why he still bothers to post here; he's surely not trying to make any friends.

Well, Miles, I post here because I care about the fate of my country. Was it Harry Truman who said about Washington, "If you want a friend in this town get a dog!"

In general, I am appalled by the folks I see in politics. The only moral standards they seem to have is winning elections and raising more money than their opponents. It is so bad that often they consider their attempts to deceive the folks back home as "pandering," and consider themselves the victims of their perceived need to "pander."

Here's a little story feature you, Miles. Back in the North Carolina redistricting thread you posted some map you declared to be some sort of natural redistricting scheme. I pointed out that you had separated Winston-Salem from it suburbs, and Greensboro from its suburbs to create an urban district that a Democrat would win. I pointed out your partisanship. You indigently replied that had started out from the West and swept East letting the chips fall were they may. Apparently having forgotten what you had posted, later in the same thread you told another poster about the exact same map that you had intentionally combined Winston-Salem with Greensboro!
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2013, 11:37:03 PM »

Oh, and for the record, the SPLC has Louis Farrakhan on its s**t list.  (Perhaps it's debatable whether or not the SPLC is a 'liberal' organization... I think it's pretty obvious that it is, though), but in no way are the Democrats buddy-buddy with him.

You are changing standards. The standard that was asserted is that some folks in the Republican party "just don't criticize the fringe, so they won't upset that faction of the party."  Well, the exact same thing is true of Democrats concerning Louis Farrakhan and a number of other people. Maybe the SPLC has stated the obvious about Louis Farrakhan,  but, that simply doesn't excuse the large number of elected Democrats who have not.

Probably because Farrakhan hasn't been politically relevant or in the news in 20 years.


A quick google search lists Farrakhan as commenting on how Django Unchained is preparing White and Black folks for an upcoming race war;

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You ought to be denouncing him, not minimizing him.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 12:38:21 AM »
« Edited: February 03, 2013, 01:17:10 AM by BigSkyBob »

Why don't we ban BS Bob so he can post full time on Stormfront? I think we will be doing him a favor.

I really don't know why he still bothers to post here; he's surely not trying to make any friends.

Well, Miles, I post here because I care about the fate of my country. Was it Harry Truman who said about Washington, "If you want a friend in this town get a dog!"

In general, I am appalled by the folks I see in politics. The only moral standards they seem to have is winning elections and raising more money than their opponents. It is so bad that often they consider their attempts to deceive the folks back home as "pandering," and consider themselves the victims of their perceived need to "pander."

Here's a little story feature you, Miles. Back in the North Carolina redistricting thread you posted some map you declared to be some sort of natural redistricting scheme. I pointed out that you had separated Winston-Salem from it suburbs, and Greensboro from its suburbs to create an urban district that a Democrat would win. I pointed out your partisanship. You indigently replied that had started out from the West and swept East letting the chips fall were they may. Apparently having forgotten what you had posted, later in the same thread you told another poster about the exact same map that you had intentionally combined Winston-Salem with Greensboro!

Well, I'd venture to say that most of the posters here care about their country; sure, I care about my country and my state. However, that doesn't give me the license to act like I have some sort of moral high ground over everyone else. I also don't see my patriotism as a barrier to building positive and constructive relationships with my fellow posters. You, on the other hand, seem to think of your fellow posters as punching bags that should be vilified if the have a red avatar. By the way, where's your avatar?

For all the complaining that you've done about redistricting, how come I've never seen you post a map you've drawn in DRA? 'Kinda funny.

As I've done more precinct-level mapping of and travelling around NC, I've become more aware of its geopolitical and partisan situation. Thus, I think my mapping/DRA skills have strengthened accordingly over the years. If you still want to cling to that point you made about the Triad, we can go back to the redistricting threads and stop hijacking this one.


First of all, I would point out that in this very thread my questioning the semantic interpretation on a remark was equated with posting on "Stormfront," whatever that means. I find it rather bizarre that the Teaparty faction of the Republican party that boosts among it own one Black and two Hispanic United States Senators is the faction that is presumed to be "racist." I find it a particular case of selective outrage on your part to claim that  I, " think of [my] fellow posters as punching bags," right after that particularly cheap shot was leveled against me without comment from you.

As to morality. It is simply an empirical fact that we have a political class that among things grants considerations to campaign donors not extended the electorate, lies habitually, and accepts future employment from the industries that they alleged regulate on the behalf of the public.  Now, you can either aspire to be more moral than that, as moral as that, or less moral than that.  I aspire to be more moral than the political class. You have a problem with the decision I have taken. I'm  kind of curious as what exactly your objection is, Miles?

As to building "positive and constructive relationships with other posters," I would again remind you of your actions towards me. Again, the statement I made was True, and you know it was True, yet, for some reason you chose to attack me on a personal level for making it. Can you see how I found that a tad bit offensive, Miles? Look, Miles, either consistency really is applying the same standards in all circumstances, or, as many in the political class believe, invariably siding against your political opponents. Quo Vadis, Miles.

I'll tell you a joke, Miles. There was a women, Jessie Winchester, who was a contestant in the Mrs Nevada beauty contest. A scandal arose when it was uncovered that she was a prostitute at the Moon Light Bunny Ranch. The organizers of the pageant were concerned that having a prostitute as a contestant detracted from the wholesome family image the Mrs Nevada pageant was trying to project. Many of my fellow conservatives were particularly incensed. I thought it was much ado about nothing. First of all, she was fifty from a very small town going up against much younger women drawn from larger pools so ignoring her would be the better option. But, I usually won them over, and bent them over with laughter, when I ask, "Would you really be making such a fuss if it were uncovered that she were a lawyer? A used car salesman? Or, a politician?"

You might notice that no one would think it funny if I said, "...a minister? A pharmacist? Or, a teacher?" That is a social reality in which we live. I believe that that social reality has valid roots. Apparently, you seem to disagree. To each his own, I suppose.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 01:15:41 AM »

Bob, do you think Senator Rapert is stupid enough not to know the double meaning of the word 'minority', naive enough not to take it into account when composing this speech, inconsiderate enough not to care, or some combination of the three?

Assuming others will interpret your remarks in good faith is not a crime. Like women who walk the streets at night without an escort, he may have acted imprudently, but, not immorally.

Second, "minority" is simply not a double entendre, nor, is "sanction" an oxymoronism.

Third, I would note the people twisting his remarks into racial remarks are the ones being "inconsiderate." He is a human being, and, what has happened to him is outrageous.

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You are changing standards. The standard that was asserted is that some folks in the Republican party "just don't criticize the fringe, so they won't upset that faction of the party."  Well, the exact same thing is true of Democrats concerning Louis Farrakhan and a number of other people. Maybe the SPLC has stated the obvious about Louis Farrakhan,  but, that simply doesn't excuse the large number of elected Democrats who have not.
[/quote]

Probably because Farrakhan hasn't been politically relevant or in the news in 20 years.

[/quote]

A quick google search lists Farrakhan as commenting on how Django Unchained is preparing White and Black folks for an upcoming race war;

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You ought to be denouncing him, not minimizing him.
[/quote]

To minimize is often more effective than to denounce. I didn't hear about this until just now, or even think to care about Farrakhan's opinion of the film. Did you, before doing this Google search? Did anyone else in this thread?
[/quote]

First of all, either ignoring the "racism" of certain "faction" within your party is inherently wrong, or it isn't. Don't tell me it is strategic "minimization" when your side does and implicit guilt when the other side does it.

Second, another poster didn't try to minimize the effectiveness of Farrakhan, but, rather deny some unpleasant facts.

Third, since his Farrakhan's remarks about Django Unchained and an impending "race war" were part of a radio broadcast it is fairly safe to assume a large number of Democrats did hear it, or ought to have heard about it.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2013, 02:22:40 AM »

Bob, do you think Senator Rapert is stupid enough not to know the double meaning of the word 'minority', naive enough not to take it into account when composing this speech, inconsiderate enough not to care, or some combination of the three?

Assuming others will interpret your remarks in good faith is not a crime. Like women who walk the streets at night without an escort, he may have acted imprudently, but, not immorally.

Entirely true, if the racial interpretation is indeed not the one that Senator Rapert intended. You have yet to actively demonstrate that. I don't really think you can

Of course, the burden of proof rests with his accusers.

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Minority means two related but different things in political discourse in this country and you know it. First: Those who are fewer than their opposite number (example: People who voted against Barack Obama in the most recent election). Second: Those who aren't white folk. Claiming that the second meaning is nonexistent or rendered nonexistent by the presence or absence of a definite article is absurd. [/quote]

Again, I don't dispute that the word "sanction" has two opposite meanings. What I dispute is the use of one implicitly implies the other. That would be oxymoronic.

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If you're going to claim that there's no indication that his remarks were racial in import, [/quote]

I am claiming that his intended meaning was "minority" in the sense of "political position held by fewer people than majority position."

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"Minority" has two definitions.  In any particular sentence, it means one or the other.

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What has happened to him is unjust, and I am perfectly free to note that injustice. Since when is pointing out an injustice problematic?


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Farrakhan isn't, to the best of my knowledge, a Democrat. Farrakhan, in his own words, 'stop[ped] short of endorsing' Obama in 2008, but Obama rejected his not-quite-endorsement. Farrakhan no longer supports Obama, whom he calls the 'first Jewish president'. [/quote]

I take it you know for a fact that the statement that he has been an non-entity for twenty years is a strawman well-stuffed with straw?

Nathan, in your estimation, what percentage of the members of Farrakhan's movement voted for Obama? Romney? Stayed home?

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I don't care.  [/quote]

That is exactly my point! You don't care that another poster tried to sweep the activities of Louis Farrakhan under the table, but, you do care that I objected to misquoting someone. That reveals a certain set of priorities.

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And yet, even if so, Farrakhan was written off (as you do), no race war has occurred, and life goes on. Funny, that. [/quote]

So, Farrakhan's remarks are only evil when the first bullets fly?

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You might consider reading "The Emperor and His New Clothes."
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 10:35:21 AM »

Bob, do you think Senator Rapert is stupid enough not to know the double meaning of the word 'minority', naive enough not to take it into account when composing this speech, inconsiderate enough not to care, or some combination of the three?

Assuming others will interpret your remarks in good faith is not a crime. Like women who walk the streets at night without an escort, he may have acted imprudently, but, not immorally.

This is too archaic even for my tastes, I must say.


Excuse me! Everything I have read has indicated the belief that women are "asking for it" when they walk alone on the streets at night is "archaic," and denouncations of that attitude are "modern." Since my position rests firmly on the latter, why are you using the term "archaic?"
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 07:21:31 PM »

Bob, do you think Senator Rapert is stupid enough not to know the double meaning of the word 'minority', naive enough not to take it into account when composing this speech, inconsiderate enough not to care, or some combination of the three?

Assuming others will interpret your remarks in good faith is not a crime. Like women who walk the streets at night without an escort, he may have acted imprudently, but, not immorally.

This is too archaic even for my tastes, I must say.

Excuse me! Everything I have read has indicated the belief that women are "asking for it" when they walk alone on the streets at night is "archaic," and denouncations of that attitude are "modern." Since my position rests firmly on the latter, why are you using the term "archaic?"

You're saying it's imprudent for women not to walk at night without an escort. I'm calling that archaic.

It is an empirical social fact in many places. I find it utterly appalling that some people react to women being raped as if the existence of rapists lurking at night is a given.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 08:22:24 PM »
« Edited: February 03, 2013, 08:37:02 PM by BigSkyBob »

You're saying it's imprudent for women not to walk at night without an escort. I'm calling that archaic.

It is an empirical social fact in many places. I find it utterly appalling that some people react to women being raped as if the existence of rapists lurking at night is a given.

While millions of women walk or jog unescorted through even some of the worst neighborhoods in America on a daily basis the vast majority of women are not raped by masked Negros (or your boogeyman of choice) jumping out of the bushes with a gun in their hand.  Actually they are typically raped by their father, uncle, cousin, family friend, etc... who are the traditional people that would escort a young lady through the dark of night in the good ol' days.

BigSkyBob, what f'ing planet do you live on?

Earth.

Other than your obvious errors in equating walking in broad daylight with walking at night, your suggestion that stepfathers would prefer to rape their stepdaughters on the streets in front of potential witnesses, your assertion that I believe escorts must be male, and your implication I have no objection to women being raped by White men, what f'ing social reality do you live in?
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2013, 08:35:32 PM »

Bob, do you think Senator Rapert is stupid enough not to know the double meaning of the word 'minority', naive enough not to take it into account when composing this speech, inconsiderate enough not to care, or some combination of the three?

Assuming others will interpret your remarks in good faith is not a crime. Like women who walk the streets at night without an escort, he may have acted imprudently, but, not immorally.

This is too archaic even for my tastes, I must say.

Excuse me! Everything I have read has indicated the belief that women are "asking for it" when they walk alone on the streets at night is "archaic," and denouncations of that attitude are "modern." Since my position rests firmly on the latter, why are you using the term "archaic?"

You're saying it's imprudent for women not to walk at night without an escort. I'm calling that archaic.

No, that is the exact opposite of what I wrote. You could drop the "im..." or the "not." Nor, was it correct for you to drop the "alone" rather than "without an escort."

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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2013, 10:12:28 PM »



It's your insistence that your interpretation is RIGHT and ours are WRONG that's problematic. You seem to think that your view is not only objectively correct but somehow obvious. A cursory examination of this thread reveals that that's not the case. You reconcile this discrepancy by assuming bad faith. It wounds you when people assume bad faith of Senator Rapert. This is because you have a Manichean worldview.


Nathan, I can not stress how Orwellian I consider your statement to be given the fact that many of the folks quoting him seemed to have decided any question as to his innocence or guilt isn't even debatable in favor of a discussion of which third parties ought to be tarred with the "racist" brush. One poster of your avatar color even took it upon himself to be my judge, jury and executioner for my having the audacity to question the veracity of the claims made against him. Advocating that someone be banned merely for questioning the factual accuracy of a statement is taking an "insistence" that ones "interpretation is RIGHT and all others is WRONG." If such attitudes are really "problematic" with you may I suggest you turn your attention to who is clearly the most egregious offender.

As for the facts in this case. Senator Rapert, apparently, hosts a Christian outreach center that hosts mission trips to Uganda, Ghana, and, the Philipines. Can we just assume the "racist" strawman is well-stuffed with straw at that point?

As for the context of his remarks, he was speaking about how he, as a Christian, had been offended that Obama failed to host the White House National Day of Prayer celebration on the first Thursday in May as was traditionally the case. Can we just assume that his objection to Obama is based on Obama's actions and not his skin color?


As to your use of the term "double meaning," I am again pointing out that the term itself has a "double meaning." Some words have multiple meanings, while others merely have multiple definitions. Some words or phrases with "double meaning" are inherently ambiguous, while others simply are not. "Minority" is clearly in the latter camp. I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue. If you think his words were ambiguous,  then, you should oppose the rush to judgment. If you think his meaning was not ambiguous, then, you shouldn't be offering him that escape hatch.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2013, 11:38:11 PM »
« Edited: February 04, 2013, 12:20:51 AM by BigSkyBob »

What did Rapert mean by "minorities", in your opinion? What group was he talking about specifically?

Watch the full video and see for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzIQuvMzQAY

At about 5:00 a pop-up occurs to an earlier part of his speech were he clearly used the words "minority political interests."  [Opps, that was 3:45]

His statement had everything to do with his objection to an Arkansas State Supreme Court iruling that he found both objectionable, and undemocratic.  It had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with race.

There was a rush to judgment.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2013, 11:53:57 PM »

You're saying it's imprudent for women not to walk at night without an escort. I'm calling that archaic.

It is an empirical social fact in many places. I find it utterly appalling that some people react to women being raped as if the existence of rapists lurking at night is a given.

While millions of women walk or jog unescorted through even some of the worst neighborhoods in America on a daily basis the vast majority of women are not raped by masked Negros (or your boogeyman of choice) jumping out of the bushes with a gun in their hand.  Actually they are typically raped by their father, uncle, cousin, family friend, etc... who are the traditional people that would escort a young lady through the dark of night in the good ol' days.

BigSkyBob, what f'ing planet do you live on?

Earth.

Other than your obvious errors in equating walking in broad daylight with walking at night...

Only a complete moron would read the word "daily" in that context and assume it means only when the sun is up. 

Only a moron would claim that "at night" means "either in daylight or dark of night."

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WTF?!  You are losing it. [/quote]

I found it rather bizarre that you brought stepfathers into a discussion of women venturing out at night alone. While it is unfortunately True that a large number of young women cannot reasonably trust their stepfathers, such rapes are more apt to occur at home.

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Usually when someone refers to a traditional escort who's primary purpose was protection for a lady traveling through a high crime neighborhood after dark the thinking was the optimal choice was a close male associate.  [/quote]

A close male associate may or may not in fact be the optimal choice. But, that is a giant aside. The social reality in which I live is that parents often tell their daughters when traveling to not venture out alone after dark. It is not the social reality in which I live that parents often tell their daughters when traveling to not venture out after dark unless escorted by at least one male. Most parents advice the safety in numbers theory that allows for a group of women to venture out at night.

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Is this the way you concede debates?
[/quote]

When you play the race card by claiming that I am believe the threat to women out alone at night is racial, you are pretty much announcing your intellectual bankruptcy.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2013, 11:54:56 PM »


By all means watch the video and see for yourself that I was right.
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2013, 12:13:04 AM »

The chap said "the minorities," as in plural, not "a minority." So if he meant an ideological minority, rather than an ethnic/racial reference, running roughshod over the "silent majority" or something, it is odd that he used the plural form, as if it were a coalition of ideological "minorities." I don't think so. When you talk about "the minorities" down on the street, you ain't talkin' ideology baby, and this guy is all street - a veritable barker. And he's good at it to boot.

PS: I watched the relevant portions of the video ... yes, watching the whole thing would have been cruel and unusual punishment. I just cringe at this sort of thing.

Did you click the popup box in the upper right hand corner which links a video to his previous remarks when he denounced, "minority political interests?"

Earlier, he said, "minority political interests." Later, he said, "minorities." They are both plural.  
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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2013, 12:25:40 AM »


Here is the direct link to a video of the remarks he made earlier in the same speech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_473714&feature=iv&src_vid=rzIQuvMzQAY&v=eGZA578WTMM#t=4m30s

His reference was to "minority political interests."





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BigSkyBob
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2013, 02:06:55 PM »

The chap said "the minorities," as in plural, not "a minority." So if he meant an ideological minority, rather than an ethnic/racial reference, running roughshod over the "silent majority" or something, it is odd that he used the plural form, as if it were a coalition of ideological "minorities." I don't think so. When you talk about "the minorities" down on the street, you ain't talkin' ideology baby, and this guy is all street - a veritable barker. And he's good at it to boot.

PS: I watched the relevant portions of the video ... yes, watching the whole thing would have been cruel and unusual punishment. I just cringe at this sort of thing.

Some people just cannot accept that non-white, non-Anglo, non-Christian, and non-straight people can be equal participants in American life.

That may very well be true of some unspecified people, but, that has absolutely nothing to do with the person in question. His objection was to political positions having support from fewer than the majority of the electorate having more influence than the positions held by the majority of the electorate. If all political viewpoints were allowed to participate "equally," as you suggest, presumably the majority would work its will in a democracy.
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