Which of these two countries is more liveable?

[John Dibble]

They're both dystopian s**tholes.

Jesusland is better if you're male and willing to keep your head down and be an obedient sheep so you can prosper economically. If you're a woman you are essentially relegated to being a cow for breeding, so I guess that depends on what you want as a woman. If you're openly atheist you're likely to be killed by a mob. (I will note that the notion that they'd riot over Dawkins but there not be any controversy over evolution in the education system seems odd - being anti-creationist is a big part of his spiel)

Aynrandland is better if you want to live freely and not have to worry about being killed by an angry mob, but the pollution and economic disparity are problematic. The censorship on the internet is done by ISPs, so this could partially be solved by being enterprising and starting your own ISP (as an average citizen you could work with others on this - crowd sourcing for funding could work) that doesn't censor content and use this as your selling point. Other problems wouldn't be so easily solved though, and the country itself probably wouldn't last long. I'd expect something akin to the French Revolution to occur eventually. If not, maybe I'd make a small fortune smuggling contraband into Jesusland.

[John Dibble]

Jesusland would be a socially backwards country full of narrow-minded, intolerant people, and no doubt that many will suffer under it. But most would get by, and though their lives would be dull and oppressing, they would be livable.

Anyrandland, on the other hand, perfectly fits the description of hell. No such society could possibly remain sustainable more than a few decades. It would either collapse under a massive revolution or just self-annihilate. Anyone who chooses it has his values seriously f**ked up.

mhmmm... people who don't want to live in a place where their sexual orientation is outlawed "have f**ked up values"...

Let's not forget their treatment of women - many women wouldn't want to live in such a place. It's a feminist's nightmare.

[John Dibble]

Jesusland would be a socially backwards country full of narrow-minded, intolerant people, and no doubt that many will suffer under it. But most would get by, and though their lives would be dull and oppressing, they would be livable.

Anyrandland, on the other hand, perfectly fits the description of hell. No such society could possibly remain sustainable more than a few decades. It would either collapse under a massive revolution or just self-annihilate. Anyone who chooses it has his values seriously f**ked up.

mhmmm... people who don't want to live in a place where their sexual orientation is outlawed "have f**ked up values"...

Let's not forget their treatment of women - many women wouldn't want to live in such a place. It's a feminist's nightmare.

Would the gays and women of the immense anyrandlandian underclass be much better off? I admit that I can't really judge, but I assume I'd rather be forced to hide my sexuality or be confined to domestic life than starving or dying from polluted air/water.

It depends on what you mean by 'better off'. Economically? Maybe, maybe not - it's not everyone is starving to death in Aynrandland, but the poor are pretty screwed there. Death from pollution wouldn't be instant, though I imagine it would shave a few years off of one's lifespan. It comes down to values I guess. Does the individual in question put more value into economic stability or personal freedom and opportunity?

[John Dibble]

I'll say AynRandLand for another reason.  After religion is destroyed, greed by and large will be destroyed.  Most people are naturally benevolent, they need religion/superstition/junk science to feel they have a superior standing than others and therefore justify their greed.  Societies in which religion is powerful breed this type of thought.

There are numerous sources of greed and general non-benevolence outside of religion to make it obvious that this is absurdly optimistic. Sociopaths who lack any empathy for others aren't going to disappear from the population just because one avenue of being predatory to others is lost to them. Tribal mentality, which often decides whether or not a person feels they need to be benevolent to another person, isn't going to go away either. Resource scarcity isn't going anywhere either, so there will be people who hoard. There is plenty of secular greed in the world.