It's Getting DARK...U.S. Churces being forced to allow use for homosexuals

[John Dibble]

Ok, read the article and your subject line is total crap - no church has been forced to have a civil union on their property. The churches that sued to stop the law were denied due to lack of standing specifically because nobody had tried to force them to have a civil union on their property. If someone actually tries to force them then they can have a lawsuit about it and the likely result will be that the churches win on first amendment grounds.

[John Dibble]

Ok, read the article and your subject line is total crap - no church has been forced to have a civil union on their property. The churches that sued to stop the law were denied due to lack of standing specifically because nobody had tried to force them to have a civil union on their property. If someone actually tries to force them then they can have a lawsuit about it and the likely result will be that the churches win on first amendment grounds.

I understand they were trying to block the law a few days after the law came into effect.  But the fact is this law WILL be used to sue churches, and most churches are very small and don't have the means to even go to trial.

And since this law exempts pastors, but not churches, it leaves the churches totally exposed.

That is why God invented appellate courts, so that once they set a precedent, rogue trial judges are leashed, and any such lawsuit will be thrown out upon the filing of a demurrer, because it fails to state a cause of action.  So I would not lose much sleep on that one. That Shockolow (sp?)  guy (the Jewish lawyer who went Baptist, and handles a lot of religious litigation, and has won cases for churches before SCOTUS), I sure will handle getting/setting the precedents pro bono.

In addition, there are a number of larger Christian/church groups that also would be quite happy to furnish a team of lawyers without charge to a small church getting sued for such a thing, much in the same way that the ACLU does pro bono work for individuals.

[John Dibble]

So, let's say, either by written law or by court ruling, gay marriage becomes the law of the land...do you REALLY think churches are going to be allowed to forbid gay marriages?!

Divorce is allowed the law of the land written by law, but do you know of any churches that don't approve of divorce that have been forced to marry divorcees? Interracial marriage marriage being allowed became the law of the land by court ruling in many places, but do you know of any churches that don't approve of interracial marriage that have been forced to marry an interracial couple?

[John Dibble]

jmfcst, please listen to me. What I said was hardly what your describe,

The jmfcst does not wish to listen to you, as that would imply the jmfcst values your opinions and perspectives. The jmfcst is above that. The jmfcst feels that it is far better to set up straw men and preach the jmfcst's paranoid delusions at them.

[John Dibble]

jmfcst, please listen to me. What I said was hardly what your describe,

The jmfcst does not wish to listen to you, as that would imply the jmfcst values your opinions and perspectives. The jmfcst is above that. The jmfcst feels that it is far better to set up straw men and preach the jmfcst's paranoid delusions at them.

Dibble, you really need to go back and reread this thread.  You’ll find I understood this case from the beginning.

Once again you completely miss the point of what other people are trying to say.

[John Dibble]

whoever advised your church that homosexual rights were going to lead to loans being called in on churches was either dishonest or very naive.

you've obviously never attempted to take out a bank loan for a church...bank loans to churches are NOT easy to come by, to say the least.  most banks don't do them, and the ones that do just do it on the side as a service to the community.

Which is probably because most small churches are not big money makers and so it isn't a sound investment for the bank to make and not having anything to do with homosexuality or any other particular religious belief.

If you are worried about churches being denied loans or having their loans called in because of anti-discrimination laws, you should also note that anti-discrimination laws prevent religious discrimination at well. Or do you have some evidence suggesting that those anti-discrimination laws are going to be repealed?