Presidential Rankings

[Gustaf]

I wont make an attempt at a comprehensive ranking, since it is so hard to compare different feats (like getting 5 points for winning WWII, I mean seriously, that is kind of priceless). I also think that the influence of presidents is overrated. Economy, for example, mostly just happens, the notion that politicians decide about it is largely a myth.

Still, those who would make top 10 would be (in no particular order, though I might rank some higher than others) Washington, Jefferson, Truman, Reagan. Arguably Lincoln, though I have my doubts there (free trade and centralization).

FDR sold out Eastern Europe and chose Stalin over Churchill, betraying democracy and the western world. He did a great deal of good things, but I just can't forgive him for that. Carter I think was a good guy doing his best during harsh times and with a lack of statemanship. Pretty much the same could be say of LBJ, although less good guy and more decisivness. The rest of the 20th century presidents I don't really like.

And I know I only put 5 people in top 10 but I couldn't bring myself to making Truman top 5 and I didn't come up with more good names.

[Gustaf]

The Civil War wasn't really about slaves, but about states v federal government and economical issues like free trade. Also, Lincoln did not actually advocate an abolition of slavery just a confinement to those states who already had it.

[Gustaf]

Nixon took a heck of a long time to end the war in Vietnam, though. 5 years after he came in with his supposed "secret plan to end the war", and we were still there. Nixon basically continued the policies of LBJ in Vietnam after having said that he wouldn't.

I agree that Johnson is one of the best Presidents we've had, he was duped into going into Vietnam by the Gulf of Tonkin which was a complete staged lie. Johnson was fooled by the military into starting the war because the military wanted to kick some commie behind (think of General Buck Turgidson or General Jack Ripper from Dr. Strangelove. One of the best movies of all time, by the way, if you've never seen it. An absolute classic! The only thing very unrealistic about it though is that no one with the name Merkin Muffley could ever get elected President!)
Johnson never would've gotten into the war if he hadn't been fooled into thinking that the Vietnamese had attacked our ship in the Gulf of Tonkin. Then once we were in, we couldn't just run out with our tail between our legs. It was a very difficult situation, Johnson made some obvious mistakes, the largest being a lack of effective communication with the public and misinformation about how things were going (though that happens in every war). Overall though, I think he did the best he could with what he had to work with.

I agree that Dr. Strangelove is very good (like most Kubrick films)

[Gustaf]

To return to subject: the Christmas number of The Economist features a ranking of the last 20 American presidents compared to the last 20 British monarchs to see whether inherited positions give much worse results than a republican system. The monarchs actually win narrowly...

The ranking is simply that each of these persons is given a score from 1 to 4, where 4 is worse and 1 is best. There is no particular order within each number category, but I did put GWB and Clinton close to each other, so as to try to make both parts happy!

FDR: 1 "Saved the world"

TR: 1 "Inconstant but inspiring, a reformer"

Ronald Reagan: 2 "Good cold warrior, amiable, limited"

Grover Cleveland: 2 "Decent and able in most  corrupt of times"

Harry Truman: 2 "Rose to the occasion, good helpers, policies"

Dwight Eisenhower: 2 "Decent post-war consolidator"

JFK: 2 "Able, good ,missile crisis, little achieved"

William Taft: 2 "Decent, stolid, fat"

Woodrow Wilson: 2 "Great reformer, though tragic figure"

LBJ: 3 "Good reforms, bad economics, worse war"

Gerald Ford: 3 "Decent but limited succedaneum"

Jimmy Carter: 3 "Good intentions, few achievements"

George Bush Sr.: 3 "Good war, otherwise mediocre"

William McKinley: 3 "Mediocrity"

Calvin Coolidge: 3 "Honest, but limited"

Bill Clinton: 3 "Brilliance outweighed by dishonesty"

GWB: 3 "Too soon to rate him more highly"

Richard Nixon: 4 "Capable of brilliance, but corrupt, reckless"

Herbert Hoover: 4 "Failed to rise to the occasion"

Warren Harding 4 "Stupid and corrupt"

[Gustaf]

OK, I am confused...if I have understood it correctly, there has been 42 American presidents, but GWB is the 43d. Or am I missing something? Does Cleveland count for two or what?

[Gustaf]

JFK was not the most imcompetent president of alltime. He was a hero. He stop a war from happening and saved millions of lives.

And that makes him incompetent?  Go away.

Ehh...he does say NOT the most incompetent, you know. He isn't all bad!

[Gustaf]

JFK was not the most imcompetent president of alltime. He was a hero. He stop a war from happening and saved millions of lives.

And that makes him incompetent?  Go away.

Ehh...he does say NOT the most incompetent, you know. He isn't all bad!

Damn!  Now I look like the jerk.

Yep, I'm afraid you do! Maybe you could be a good troll if you wanted to!

[Gustaf]

JFK was not the most imcompetent president of alltime. He was a hero. He stop a war from happening and saved millions of lives.

And that makes him incompetent?  Go away.

Ehh...he does say NOT the most incompetent, you know. He isn't all bad!

Damn!  Now I look like the jerk.

Yep, I'm afraid you do! Maybe you could be a good troll if you wanted to!

Thanks....
LETS GO HURRICANES

Oh, never mind!

Btw, does anyone intend to answer my little question? Why is GWB the 43d president when there seem to have been only 42?

[Gustaf]

JFK was not the most imcompetent president of alltime. He was a hero. He stop a war from happening and saved millions of lives.

And that makes him incompetent?  Go away.

Ehh...he does say NOT the most incompetent, you know. He isn't all bad!

Damn!  Now I look like the jerk.

Yep, I'm afraid you do! Maybe you could be a good troll if you wanted to!

Thanks....
LETS GO HURRICANES

Oh, never mind!

Btw, does anyone intend to answer my little question? Why is GWB the 43d president when there seem to have been only 42?

This is because grover Cleveland was elected twice.  He was elected, defeated, and then elected again.  He is the 22nd and 24th presidents.

OK, that's what I thought. It seems a little weird to me, but what the heck, most things here do...