Why do people even believe in hell? (user search)
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  Why do people even believe in hell? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Why do people even believe in hell?  (Read 2615 times)
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« on: June 10, 2021, 07:26:05 PM »

How many times can you find the phrase "eternal hell" in the Bible or the word "hell" in the gospel of John?

That's quite a strained request, don't you think?

The phrase "bestiality" doesn't appear in the Gospel John either, but that doesn't mean Jesus discounted it, nor does it mean that the writer of the Gospel didn't believe in the concept. Basically, there is nothing in any book of the bible that claims any given book is exhaustive.

But in the Gospel of John, Jesus did speak of the resurrection of the dead, followed by judgment, and the fire that consumes the condemned...so clearly the author believed in the concept of Hell:

John 3:18,36 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son...36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

John 5:29 "those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

John 15:6 "If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

And when you venture out beyond the Gospel of John, you'll find the concept of eternal punishment for the condemned spoken of repeatedly throughout the New Testament...so, clearly the early church believed in the concept of Hell.

So, to answer the OP...why do some people even believe in Hell? Because Jesus and Apostles did. I don't accept the concept of Hell based on what I like or dislike, nor on what others find "offensive", rather I base my beliefs on what the bible repeatedly teaches.

Actually, all one can conclude from John is that those thrown into the fire at the day of judgement is that once thrown, they don't get unthrown. Those passages are entirely consistent with the doctrine of annihilationism. The concept of an eternal Hell assumes the punishing is eternal, but annihilationism only assumes the punishment is eternal and will never be undone.

Revelation 21:4 says that when the new earth and heaven are established "There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." That can't be the case if souls are still being tormented in Hell.

Revelation 20:10 is the basis of probably the strongest argument in favor of the concept of eternal Hell, but even then it depends on how one interprets the scope of "εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων". Is it forever and ever or until the end of the old cosmos since the passage in question occurs just before the Great White Throne Judgement that marks that end in preparation for the new cosmos? I think  the latter since the lake of fire was part of the old order of things and is unnecessary in the new.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2021, 05:30:18 PM »

What I mean is that non Christians in a Christian hell shows how absurd the idea of Hell is.
I find myself baffled by your theological insight.
Why are you baffled?

It's fairly obvious his point is that he believes it to be absurd for someone to be judged by a belief system one doesn't share and might not even have heard of.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2021, 05:24:56 AM »

Look at Michael Behe statement on the issue of Evolution. This man is a biochemist and even he acknowledges the position of Evolution was used as justification for Holocaust, something that those who are serious about Evolution should look into.
He’s not a credible source by any definition. They used social Darwinism, not evolution. Whales did once live on land and have legs.
I’m pretty clearly mocking the idea that one fringe person in a group shows the rest of the group to liars.

Why are you baffled?

It's fairly obvious his point is that he believes it to be absurd for someone to be judged by a belief system one doesn't share and might not even have heard of.
He wouldn’t be being judged by “a belief system” - AFAIK, no Christian church claims to know the calculus of whether or not any specific non believer goes to Hell - but by God, the very ground of being. If He is the Good itself, I cannot see a reasonable objection to being judged by the Good. Indeed, it is imitation of this judgment that we feebly attempt when we engage in moral judgment.
The idea that God is the very ground of being is itself a belief system. For that matter, would a just God condemn someone for not believing in God when that one was never given a chance to believe.
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