Hollywood star Elliot Page comes out as trans (deadname Ellen Page) (user search)
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  Hollywood star Elliot Page comes out as trans (deadname Ellen Page) (search mode)
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Author Topic: Hollywood star Elliot Page comes out as trans (deadname Ellen Page)  (Read 2445 times)
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« on: December 03, 2020, 01:07:32 AM »

It wouldn't be a problem if names weren't gendered to begin with. My sister-in-law is named Buford, tho she generally goes by the nickname Buffy, and did so long before the vampire slayer was even a passing thought in Josh Whedon's mind. (Buford was an old family name her parents wanted to use and they weren't certain whether or not they'd have any more kids; they didn't.) So she, and she's definitely a she of the Katharine Hepburn variety in both personality and looks, does occasionally have to deal with gender confusion because of her name. Without gendered names, there would be no reason for transpersons to have deadnames. Rant aside, our language is what it is, tho for an Indo-European language it is fairly minimalist in its use of gender.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2020, 04:03:32 PM »

The only film of theirs I've seen is Juno

Pronoun cringe. (Unless Elliot is pretending Ellen is someone completely different, instead of an earlier phase of his life.)
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2020, 04:25:56 PM »

The only film of theirs I've seen is Juno

Pronoun cringe. (Unless Elliot is pretending Ellen is someone completely different, instead of an earlier phase of his life.)

Elliot said that he uses he/they pronouns so they can be used interchangeably.

Slightly less cringey.  I'm fine with using they/them/their in the singular when the gender is unknown but not as a non-binary singular gender.  In that circumstance I personally prefer ey/em/eir. Still, I'm not the grammar Czar.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2020, 07:22:49 AM »

The only film of theirs I've seen is Juno

Pronoun cringe. (Unless Elliot is pretending Ellen is someone completely different, instead of an earlier phase of his life.)

Elliot said that he uses he/they pronouns so they can be used interchangeably.

Slightly less cringey.  I'm fine with using they/them/their in the singular when the gender is unknown but not as a non-binary singular gender.  In that circumstance I personally prefer ey/em/eir. Still, I'm not the grammar Czar.

Eh, it's becoming more common. I'm pretty sure it's even been recognized by Webster's and/or the OED?

They're descriptive dictionaries, not prescriptive ones. The reason I find the use of "they" as a non-binary gender singular pronoun to be cringey is that "they" is already in wider use as an indeterminate gender singular pronoun. Ideally, the indeterminate gender singular pronouns should be distinct from those of any gendered singular pronouns, and if they aren't going to be distinct, then there's no reason to change from the existing traditional practice of using the masculine pronouns as the indeterminate pronouns.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2020, 01:38:03 PM »

Stopping in to remind everyone that Juno is one of the worst films ever conceived by a human and every copy of it should be destroyed.
I only saw it in theaters when it came out and barely remember it. I do remember it being slightly disappointing, but I was 18 then and I wasn't a good amateur film critic back then. My main problem if I recall was the script.

Yes. It's a nonstop upchuck of terrible puns, cutesy wordplay, and witless one-liners. It's as though someone tried to write a script using nothing but Tumblr-isms.

But puns and wordplay are the best types of humor.

No, they're the seasoning of humor.  Too much is bad, and German puns are the wurst.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2020, 04:07:05 AM »

The only film of theirs I've seen is Juno

Pronoun cringe. (Unless Elliot is pretending Ellen is someone completely different, instead of an earlier phase of his life.)

Elliot said that he uses he/they pronouns so they can be used interchangeably.

Slightly less cringey.  I'm fine with using they/them/their in the singular when the gender is unknown but not as a non-binary singular gender.  In that circumstance I personally prefer ey/em/eir. Still, I'm not the grammar Czar.

Eh, it's becoming more common. I'm pretty sure it's even been recognized by Webster's and/or the OED?

They're descriptive dictionaries, not prescriptive ones. The reason I find the use of "they" as a non-binary gender singular pronoun to be cringey is that "they" is already in wider use as an indeterminate gender singular pronoun. Ideally, the indeterminate gender singular pronouns should be distinct from those of any gendered singular pronouns, and if they aren't going to be distinct, then there's no reason to change from the existing traditional practice of using the masculine pronouns as the indeterminate pronouns.

They doesn't have any real sort of gender associated with it. He and she obviously do, although they doesn't carry the baggage that the others do, leading to it becoming more and more commonplace for non-binary folx to adopt it. They can still be used as an indeterminate gender singular pronoun for when the subject's gender is vague or unknown as when people actually use they for themselves (hehe...themselves), it still doesn't "determine" their gender per se. This is further backed by the fact that there are quite a few binary people, most admittedly trans, who use they as an alternative to she or he, with Elliot Page himself being an example.

Folx?  Folx!!!!!!!!!!!!
That;s not just cringey but ridiculous. At least when a  person uses "they" to refer to themself aren't creating spellings out of whole cloth,  (Which might seem odd for me to hold as an objection since I support the use of ey and em, but those at least have some history behind them and their formation is analogous to how the Middle English "hit" became "it".)
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