Gay teen attacked by family (VIDEO)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Call it "faith" if you must, but that family bears as much relation to real Christianity as al-Qaeda and its offshoots bear to real Islam.  That said, no one should deny that they are among those described in Matthew 7:21-23 in that they think they are Christian.

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[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Call it "faith" if you must, but that family bears as much relation to real Christianity as al-Qaeda and its offshoots bear to real Islam.  That said, no one should deny that they are among those described in Matthew 7:21-23 in that they think they are Christian.

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Except many "Christians" in this country are just like this family: God-fearing, people-hating troglodytes.

Unfortunately true, but not just in this country.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Yes they are. Most little boys don't even know what "gay" means aside from as a generic insult. And of those that do, it's kind of hard to "choose" being sexually attracted to men when you don't even have a sex drive yet.

In my personal experience, attraction between people generally involves more than which physical aspects of sex one wishes to engage in. So I see no reason why children couldn't begin to identify as being attracted to a particular gender before their sex drive is activated by puberty because that attraction need not have a sexual component to it.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Yes they are. Most little boys don't even know what "gay" means aside from as a generic insult. And of those that do, it's kind of hard to "choose" being sexually attracted to men when you don't even have a sex drive yet.

In my personal experience, attraction between people generally involves more than which physical aspects of sex one wishes to engage in. So I see no reason why children couldn't begin to identify as being attracted to a particular gender before their sex drive is activated by puberty because that attraction need not have a sexual component to it.

ho·mo·sex·u·al
adjective \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\

: sexually attracted to people of the same sex

: based on or showing a sexual attraction to people of the same sex

What's your point other than showing you have access to a dictionary?  As a society we do tend to obsess upon the sexual component of gender preference to the point that most act as if it were the only part that mattered.  Granted, it matters very much once we hit puberty, but the scientific research indicates that whether we are hetero- or homo-sexual has been determined before puberty wreaks its effects upon us.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

"I have known you were gay since you were a little boy"
<2 seconds later>
"And you made a choice..."

What a reasonable and intelligent woman. Is this why Texas doesn't want to teach critical thinking?

The two statements are not logically incompatible.  Young people can make choices, indeed that is why some Christian sects, including those who comprise most people who call themselves Christian call for infant baptism.  SO while there is much wrongness there, it isn't a wrongness in logic.  Logical correctness and ethical correctness are independent of each other.

Yes they are. Most little boys don't even know what "gay" means aside from as a generic insult. And of those that do, it's kind of hard to "choose" being sexually attracted to men when you don't even have a sex drive yet.

In my personal experience, attraction between people generally involves more than which physical aspects of sex one wishes to engage in. So I see no reason why children couldn't begin to identify as being attracted to a particular gender before their sex drive is activated by puberty because that attraction need not have a sexual component to it.

ho·mo·sex·u·al
adjective \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\

: sexually attracted to people of the same sex

: based on or showing a sexual attraction to people of the same sex

What's your point other than showing you have access to a dictionary?  As a society we do tend to obsess upon the sexual component of gender preference to the point that most act as if it were the only part that mattered.  Granted, it matters very much once we hit puberty, but the scientific research indicates that whether we are hetero- or homo-sexual has been determined before puberty wreaks its effects upon us.

My point is obvious. A child without a sex drive can't choose to be sexually attracted to men, and therefore a child can't choose to be gay. Of course, even an adolescent/adult with a sex drive can't change their preference, but that's beside the point. To act as if a child can make the conscious choice to select their sexual orientation when they hardly know anything about sex is idiotic.

I see you've totally missed my point.  (You also may be assuming that I think the hetero/bi/homo distinction is a choice, which I don't.)  Let me try restating my point in other terms. While for obvious reasons as a society we focus upon the sexual aspects of orientation, the fact that it forms before the sex drive does indicates it would probably be more apt to call it gender orientation.  Therefore for those who think gender orientation is a choice, there is no logical inconsistency involved in them thinking such a choice may be made while one is still a prepubescent child.  That they are mistaken in thinking it is a choice is a factual error, not a logical error.

(Yes, I'm aware that gender orientation is usually used as a synonym of gender identity.  As a language, English still hasn't fully come to terms with terminology relating to gay LGB LGBT LGBTQ topics and probably won't for some time to come.)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

What are you two arguing about?  I can't make heads or tails of what Ernest is saying here.  Being gay isn't a choice.  Being effeminate or flaming isn't a choice.  That woman in the video is a inhuman monster.  End of story. 

I'm not certain what we're arguing about either, since all three of us are in general agreement apparently.  About the only thing I'd disagree with you is over that woman being an inhuman monster.  Unfortunately, she is an all too human monster.  Inhumane, but not inhuman.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

People should visit these back asswords bigots and give them a good talking to, enough to no longer disown their son.

Also, more proof that 99% of the time conversion therapy doesn't work.

I think your percentage is low altho I doubt that most who advocate such nonsense would consider this to be "therapy".

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Anyway, there are a few success stories regarding conversion to heterosexuality, but they are few and far between. That's the point I'm trying to make. And no one on Atlas (and many people in general) is willing to acknowledge them. But since they don't work the majority of the time, even if it does work on a select few, it's not really worth doing.

Besides, the few success stories are probably from people who are different from the average gay.

Given that there have been quite a few people who have claimed to have therapy work for them only to later recant those claims, it's quite appropriate that such claims would meet with extreme skepticism.