PA Senator allowing gay people to exist

[Keystone Phil]

Yeah, Eich is a bit on the far right if you haven't noticed.

[Keystone Phil]

This man is abhorrent. He wants to ruin the lives of thousands of families in his state; he should not be in a position of authority.

If you're a US resident and feel strongly about this, please sign this petition:
http://www.keystoneprogress.org/page/s/paeichelberger

Give me a break. "This man is abhorrent." Really? Do you know anything else about the man? Who he beat? What else he's done in the legislature?

[Keystone Phil]

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Read the above, Phil. That is what the guy compared my relationship to. He also claims that homosexual relationships are "inherently dysfunctional". You're damn right I find that abhorrent - are you going to tell me that's an inappropriate reaction?

If you find that viewpoint abhorrent, more power to you. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that. You called the man himself abhorrent though. You know almost nothing about him. Don't sign silly petitions about people you barely know.

First impressions are everything.

Considering you know very little about the man, my point still stands.

[Keystone Phil]

I'm not sure why should I extend him a courtesy he clearly hasn't extended to my community, but fine; his views are abhorrent, and I am disgusted that somebody who holds them has any influence when it comes to public policy, but for all I know Mr Eichelberger is a perfectly nice man one-on-one.

Sorry but enough of this "my community" nonsense and that goes for people on both sides of this issue. I swear, it's like this issue is the only matter of importance for far too many people.

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If the petition was anything like the nonsense you spouted about him being abhorrent and how he shouldn't be in a position of authority then the petition is silly.

Sometimes you can't be polite with men like him who not only holds such views but can't even articulate them without sounding a fifth of his age.

I'm glad you know so much about him.

[Keystone Phil]

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Read the above, Phil. That is what the guy compared my relationship to. He also claims that homosexual relationships are "inherently dysfunctional". You're damn right I find that abhorrent - are you going to tell me that's an inappropriate reaction?

If you find that viewpoint abhorrent, more power to you. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that. You called the man himself abhorrent though. You know almost nothing about him. Don't sign silly petitions about people you barely know.

First impressions are everything.

Considering you know very little about the man, my point still stands.

Phil it takes an awful lot of hate to have an opinion as warped as he does, and anyone with that level of hate inside of them is abhorrent.

Right, Smash.

Smash obligatory hack quota fulfulled for 6/22/09.

[Keystone Phil]

Sometimes you can't be polite with men like him who not only holds such views but can't even articulate them without sounding a fifth of his age.

I'm glad you know so much about him.

Fine. I'll wheel that one out the next time you mention any British politician.

I've never said anything even remotely as personal as you have about a State Senator that you you know little about both personally and politically. 

[Keystone Phil]

I don't give a crap about what else this guy's done, it isn't relevant.

So "gay issues" are the only issues that matter? That's all that's relevant when I go to make a judgement on Eich? Do you realize how silly this sounds?

 

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Then say that his views on one issue are abhorrent.

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I'm tired of focusing on the "_____ community" (and that goes for more liberal and more conservative communities) when we talk about issues because it leads to wrong judgements. Now Eich is the worst thing in the world because of his stance on one issue and you feel as if you know enough about him to say he shouldn't be in a position of authority and that he's personally abhorrent.

Again, dislike his view all you want. I'm not taking issue with that. I am, however, taking issue with this idea that you are in a good spot to judge the man overall.

[Keystone Phil]

If I lived in PA (which I appreciate I don't - but we all comment on places we don't live, that's kinda the point of this place) then no, I would not want a state senator who regards me and people like me as one step up from paedophiles. Even if he was great on other issues, because the whole "one step up from paedophiles" thing, well, that's kind of a dealbreaker for me (BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!).

Point out for me where he said they were one step up from pedophiles.

All I see is Eich using the slipperly slope argument and, for the eighteenth billion time, that does not mean gays are being compared to pedophiles; it means that people will argue that any type of marriage ought to be allowed. Agree with that line of argument or not, it doesn't mean he's comparing gays to pedophiles.

[Keystone Phil]

Even if I accepted that the slippery slope argument was not comparing my relationship with Andrew (for example) to a man marrying a baby or a horse (other example) - I don't accept that for a minute by the way - it is still Eichelberger demonstrating that he does not understand the difference between two consenting adults wanting to marry, and the other types of marriage he suggests. So even if he is not a homophobe for using it, he's at least an idiot (disclaimer: I feel that this would make him an idiot, I am not suggesting that he is demonstrably an idiot in other areas. Phew).

Please give me some indication that you understand my point of view.

I can understand your argument and I respect it but what I don't respect is when people twist what is being said. He did not compare gays to pedophiles. He is not a foaming at the mouth homophobe. The fact that I have to correct that disappoints me. The fact that you would have kept using that argument if you weren't corrected disappoints me.

We can agree to disagree on this issue, my friend, but I'm not just going to back down when you mischaracterize someone and his actions.

[Keystone Phil]

But I do think he's a homophobe ("foaming at the mouth" is your phrase not mine), and him using the slippery slope argument is one of the reasons that I think so.

Slippery slope arguments = homophobia?

Oh, God... 

 

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Then I'm sorry but you don't understand grammar.

[Keystone Phil]

Considering you exploded at me a while ago for doing exactly what you just did with your little rolleyes there, I believe you're a hypocrite and have absolutely no leg to stand on here.[/qupte]

LOL what?

Uh, context, please? You're calling me a hypocrite because I used the eye roll? I doubt I "exploded" on you because you used the eye roll; I most likely "exploded" because of your reasoning. Nice attempt at spinning this though. You're not liking the way this is going so you want to veer off and try to discredit me with a very, very twisted/poor example of how I'm a hypocrite.

 

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Oh, boy.

I'm not going to point out the several times I said our differing opinions is fine with me. I said what I cannot respect is how you blatantly twist what was said by someone and you think slipperly slope arguments = homophobia. Sorry, that's childish and wrong and I'm going to point it out. If that means I'm "belittling" you based on a "difference of opinion," whatever. Yet another point you're blatantly twisting.

And Phil's not being a hack at all defending someone who thinks gays should be happy they are being allowed to "exist" just because he has a R next to his name.

Yep, I defend anyone with an (R) next to their name...or I'm defending someone I know a little bit more about than you do.

By the way, dope, try reading my first post in this thread and notice how I'm not defending his position throughout this thread; I'm defending him from character attacks from people who know little to nothing about him.

Also, check other threads where I've said that I don't totally agree with Eich's efforts and I'm not sure if I'd vote for it if it came to the voters.

You're dismissed now.

[Keystone Phil]

Phil, look at the guys statements, its much more than just someone who simply disagrees with Gay Marriage,  Anyone who comes out and makes an argument with that much venom and hate is a hate monger period.

Smash, I did look at the statements. Simply repeating your point (which lacks any real substance) isn't going to change my mind. I don't think there was "venom" in what he said.

It was a while back, in one of the gay marriage threads. You posted something I disagreed with, I quoted it and said "sheesh" or similar, you went nuts. I'm not trying to twist things, I just found it hypocritical since that was your last interaction with me and you just did what you accused me of doing back then. Whatever, it isn't important.

That really isn't enough context for me. Sorry.

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I don't see how the hell it is homophobic! Some people truly believe that others will now use the "it's only about love" argument to make marriage for any type of couple!

I'm sorry but if we're going back to this argument that unless you support gay marriage, you're a homophobe, I want nothing to do with it.

[Keystone Phil]

This indicates to me that the senator views gay relationships purely in the context of sex, apparently unconvinced that they can have anything beyond sex with each other.

A homophobe wouldn't say something like "they're free to do whatever they want sexually."

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Ok? Again, I said I didn't agree with his point of view but I don't think that's homophobic.

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Or he just has a negative opinion of extending marriage to gays.

Whatever the case, I don't see homophobia here and I hate how you have said that if you don't support gay marriage, you're homophobic and saying otherwise is just an attempt to make someone like myself feel better.

You know I really don't give a sh**t what his positions on other issues are. I may even agree with a lot of them but that is not relevant. He is a hateful freak and I don't understand why you are defending him

I'm defending the character attacks. You know next to nothing about him. He was called an "abhorrent" human being. It was said he shouldn't be serving in the State Senate (which is just ridiculous if we're basing that off of his views on one issue). Give me a break.

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So I dislike all Democrats, I don't defend them and I defend all Republicans?

Give me a fucking break, dude. Of all the things you can throw my way, do me a favor and don't call me a partisan hack. I've proven otherwise countless times on this forum. And I'm not even defending Eich's position! I've said several times that I don't know that I'd support his efforts if it came to a public vote!

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I'm "insulting everyone" I talk to when my views are blatantly twisted. You came in here and said I'm only defending Eich because he's a Republican. Wrong. You didn't even bother to read my damn position on Eich's bill so stop being a complete dope, actually read my posts and then I'll stop insulting.

[Keystone Phil]

Phil, how exactly is suggesting that gay relationships are dysfunctional not hate and not homophobic??

His response wasn't exactly convincing that he feels that way.


A long pause followed by an "Ummmm." Yeah, I can feel that seething hatred.

[Keystone Phil]

And I do think he is an "abhorrent" human being for the things he said. What is there that I need to know about him huh? He might be a good guy in many ways but these views he has imho makes him a bad person. I am sure many racists are good people in other ways too, except for a few extremely disgusting views. In my opinion that makes them horrible human beings and I feel the same way about homophobes like Eich, even if he is otherwise a great guy.

Again, I don't think his positions are homophobic but whatever. I'll be sure to find a fault of yours and call you abhorrent even though I know very little about you.

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And you know nothing else about him so calling him an all around horrible person is disgusting.

And he couldn't say no because??

A leading question by Leach made that a bit difficult. Eich certainly has to do better articulating his position. This is a perfect example why. Leach is known to be a very colorful debater and he perfectly painted Eich into a corner.

[Keystone Phil]

Though people with his hateful views are often pretty stupid.

Ah, yes! Another favorite - calling people we disagree with "stupid." Lovely.

[Keystone Phil]

I think his comments show that he is at least extremely ignorant of gay people if not hateful. Like I said he may be an overall nice person but these disgusting views he holds certainly outweigh anything else imo. You disagree with me on that and that's fine. Just don't call us a hack (like you called smash) if we call him a bigot. I don't care if he is a democrat, republican or green; his views are disgusting.

But you know one view of his and I don't see why it should outweight any and everything else but whatever.

[Keystone Phil]

... so if I have an intense hate for Italians, but all my other qualities were perfect, and if I say "Ummm" before badmouthing Italians, it's justified?

Dude, I think I've been over this before. Go ahead and hate Italians like I hate the French. I really don't care. If you have "perfect" other qualities, I'm not going to call you a bad person! Hell, you wouldn't even be a bad person to me personally if you treated me kindly on a one on one level (as I would do with a Frenchman, for example).

Though people with his hateful views are often pretty stupid.

Ah, yes! Another favorite - calling people we disagree with "stupid." Lovely.

Did I say people I disagree with were stupid?  No.  What I said is most people with hateful views are stupid.

And even if he was more "mild" in his approach, you'd still call him stupid and hateful.