DRAFT (Insert Leftist Here) FOR PRESIDENT!

[Keystone Phil]

Akno for President - Because he and Keystone Phil don't argue enough!

or...

Flyers2006 for President - The Girls will go wild for him!

[Keystone Phil]

Akno for President - Because he and Keystone Phil don't argue enough!

We should have a fusion Akno/Phil ticket.

Like I said before, the day I run with Akno is the day I take the Rick Santorum photo out of my signature. Simply put - neither will ever happen.

[Keystone Phil]

Akno would be a great candidate? If you want someone else to win, I'd agree with you but I doubt that those are your intentions.

[Keystone Phil]

Give the poor guy a break.  You're making it sound like he can never hold elected office again.  So he lied?  Big deal, it's not like he killed a guy.  Plus, I'm not a big fan of effectively banning people from fantasy government because they made a mistake.

Edit: except maybe Naso.

Akno is Atlasia's biggest crook but don't ban him. Ban Naso instead. It's ashame that even until this day some refuse to be fair.

[Keystone Phil]

Akno is Atlasia's biggest crook but don't ban him. Ban Naso instead. It's ashame that even until this day some refuse to be fair.

While I would vote for Harry, I can't trust Akno all that much anymore. Harry didn't lie about the people he brought being his friends, Akno tried to cover things that were wrong up.

Akno never lied about bringing his friends. What he lied about was the whole GirlGoneWild situation. And this wasn't lying once or twice either. Then, knowing that he was fooling the voters, he tried to run for Senate.

[Keystone Phil]

Akno is Atlasia's biggest crook but don't ban him. Ban Naso instead. It's ashame that even until this day some refuse to be fair.

While I would vote for Harry, I can't trust Akno all that much anymore. Harry didn't lie about the people he brought being his friends, Akno tried to cover things that were wrong up.

To this day I still don't see how that makes him "Atlasia's biggest crook", though - bigger than, you know, the guy who actually perpetrated what he simply lied about?

Flyers tried to pull that one trick and he is no doubt near the number one spot in terms of being a crook. With Akno, I just have a feeling he's had schemes in the past that he tried to use. It wouldn't surprise me if he came up with the idea to create another account. He was the campaign manager.

[Keystone Phil]

Just to set the record straight, Red Button, who was a part of the flood of Democrats who registered before the election, was a friend of mine who I pointed to the forums.  When I pointed him here I pushed him to register to vote ASAP.  Unfortunately, a friend of mine who I thought would make a valuable member of the community forgot about Atlasia within a week, and I decided it would be immoral to point him to the site again.

Thanks for bringing an end to one of the great Atlasian political mysteries.

[Keystone Phil]

With Akno, I just have a feeling he's had schemes in the past that he tried to use. It wouldn't surprise me if he came up with the idea to create another account. He was the campaign manager.

Care to back that up?  You can't go spreading stuff about somebody with "I have a feeling" as the evidence.

Also, if Akno is a 'crook', then Naso is just as much of one.  Even if neither of their 'crimes' was actually illegal in Atlasia at the time.  And if Akno lied about what Flyers did, who really cares?

Despite my joking statement about Naso, I honestly wouldn't mind if both tried to rejoin fantasy government.  Or George W. Bush/Zzzbot for that matter, who you barely seemed to care about.

It wasn't just a feeling, Joe. Akno was campaign manager and lied about activities both he and Flyers knew were wrong. Yes, he's a crook.

As for George W. Bush/Zzzzbot, I did make a statement, I believe. I remember saying something about being thrilled that I didn't endorse him (when I was considering it). The difference was that he left.

[Keystone Phil]

I think the difference between me and Naso is that I actually would know what I am doing if I got elected to something, while Naso obviously had no clue whatsoever.

Yet you are the sneak and the liar. Naso was a bad Senator who had no idea what he was doing but atleast he didn't try to cover up things.

[Keystone Phil]

Just to set the record straight, Red Button, who was a part of the flood of Democrats who registered before the election, was a friend of mine who I pointed to the forums.  When I pointed him here I pushed him to register to vote ASAP.  Unfortunately, a friend of mine who I thought would make a valuable member of the community forgot about Atlasia within a week, and I decided it would be immoral to point him to the site again.

Thanks for bringing an end to one of the great Atlasian political mysteries.

Had I known it was a political mystery I would have said this a long time ago.

That doesn't matter. Atleast it's out and everyone knows. I was just talking about Red Button a few days ago and thought that Flyers had something to do with it. I stand corrected.

[Keystone Phil]

Two questions, Phil.

1. The next time there's any kind of mystery surrounding possible voter fraud or whatever, will you assume Flyers or Akno had something to do with it, like you did with Red Button?

2. If Flyers and Akno both had blue avatars and hadn't shared deep arguments with you about various unrelated issues (e.g. PA-13 with Flyers), would you still be aggressively calling them crooks and liars, and unfit to ever hold office again?

1) No because there is no Flyers involvement in Fantasy politics and Akno has seem the effects. The reason why I assumed it was Flyers was because there was an unusual spike in Dem registrations and I believe the first post by Red Button was a registration.

2) If this was done by anyone of my party, I'd be ashamed and would call them the same things. In fact, though I am not Chairman of the ACA right now, I would call for them to be banned from the ACA.

I do love these arguments though. Look at the amount of people that go after me for going after Flyers yet always want to kind of brush aside what he did. I'll always remember when he went into a fit, calling me a supporter of Plutocracy and a hater of the fact that liberals registered in Atlasia when I questioned the GirlGoneWild account. And where's the real anger over that? It's gone. I don't want to constantly bring up this situation. I hate arguing about it. However, we have to keep this situation in our memories and make sure that it never happens again.

[Keystone Phil]

I think the difference between me and Naso is that I actually would know what I am doing if I got elected to something, while Naso obviously had no clue whatsoever.

Yet you are the sneak and the liar. Naso was a bad Senator who had no idea what he was doing but atleast he didn't try to cover up things.

But Naso ended up hurting more people, the residents of his district, due to his not voting than I did by lying about something that didn't effect anyone (Since IrishDem confessed, deleted GGW, and dropped out before the election).

You would have hurt your constituents, Mr. Akno, by refusing to come out about the situation. When the voters don't know those things, it's just as bad as a Senator who didn't vote.

[Keystone Phil]

I believe the first post by Red Button was a registration.

Actually, it was his Last Post

I knew it was one of the two! 

Anyway, it was significant because it all happened in one day, if I'm not mistaken. Posts, registration during the Dem. spike, no vote. Seemed very odd and connected to the Flyers situation.

[Keystone Phil]

Given the choice between being underrepresented in dealings of great importance or being in the dark about something that happened 3 months prior, I'll take the latter, though neither is option is good.

It wasn't just "being in the dark" though. You flat out lied to people, too.

[Keystone Phil]

I do love these arguments though. Look at the amount of people that go after me for going after Flyers yet always want to kind of brush aside what he did. I'll always remember when he went into a fit, calling me a supporter of Plutocracy and a hater of the fact that liberals registered in Atlasia when I questioned the GirlGoneWild account. And where's the real anger over that? It's gone. I don't want to constantly bring up this situation. I hate arguing about it. However, we have to keep this situation in our memories and make sure that it never happens again.

I'm not brushing anything aside.  I think what Flyers did was stupid and immoral, and Akno's cover-up was also a big mistake.  However, I'm just trying to restore some balance.

In any case, I would readily accept Flyers, Akno, George W. Bush and even Naso back to fantasy government if I believed they could give us reason to forgive them.

Unlike some, I don't hold grudges.

I'm not holding a grudge. I'm holding them accountable. There was no reason to take the extreme measures they took for something related to Atlasian politics.

[Keystone Phil]

There was no reason to take the extreme measures they took for something related to Atlasian politics.

I agree.  You could also argue that there is no reason to take the extreme measure of effectively forbidding their return to fantasy government.

But their initial actions went against the very reason we have Atlasian politics - for fun. They didn't care. When winning becomes that much of an issue and those actions are taken, they shouldn't return. They didn't care who they screwed over so we shouldn't care if they want to return. Sorry if it sounds harsh but I'd say the same if someone within my party did it too except I'd be even more embarassed.

[Keystone Phil]

So do you think Mike Naso shouldn't ever return to fantasy government?  He matches everything you said in your last post.

He wasn't as extreme, in my opinion, but I suggest that he stays away from Atlasian politics. I know I've relied on him for support and would have had a vote from him in June but what's fair is fair.

[Keystone Phil]

  But I'm not going to judge them forever.

I don't judge them based on this and don't appreciate how you make it seem like I am doing that.

[Keystone Phil]

That was unintentional.  But now that you mention it, you do give me that impression at times.  Why else do you believe Akno, Flyers and Naso are unfit to return to fantasy government?

Oh, in regards to holding a position in Atlasian government, those were the reasons and I'm sure many would give the exact same reasons for not wanting them to serve again. I thought you meant holding a grudge against them in everything they do because of that. That's certainly not the case.

[Keystone Phil]

OK fair enough, but what about the other points I made in this post?:

I think I'm more of the opinion that we shouldn't permanently exclude people from the game for not playing fair. I'm sure all of them have learned their lessons, and shown other people who were considering similar actions that it probably won't work and they'll get caught.

I'd be more than happy to welcome them back in if I believed they'd changed, and wouldn't make the same mistakes again. Whether that's the case right now with Akno, Flyers or Naso is debatable. But I'm not going to judge them forever.

Well I know Flyers didn't learn his lesson. In fact, look at some of his recent arguments concerning the matter. He almost says that it was justified because he was gerrymandered into a tough situation. Oh yeah, he's learned his lesson alright.