What 2000 states are you most worried about your canidate losing? (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 04, 2024, 03:45:32 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2004 U.S. Presidential Election
  What 2000 states are you most worried about your canidate losing? (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: What 2000 states are you most worried about your canidate losing?  (Read 9776 times)
Beefalow and the Consumer
Beef
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,123
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.77, S: -8.78

« on: April 07, 2004, 09:54:47 AM »

If I were rooting for Bush I'd be worried about the following three states:

1. Florida
2. Florida
3. Florida

I think Bush can win without Ohio, but I don't think he'll win without Florida.  I would have said Missouri earlier on, but that seems pretty solidly Bush these days.

If I were rooting for Kerry I'd be worried about:

1. Pennsylvania
2. Michigan
3. Wisconsin

If he loses any of these three, it's probably over for Kerry.  Big Ten country is going to make or break it for him.
Logged
Beefalow and the Consumer
Beef
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,123
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.77, S: -8.78

« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2004, 11:46:48 AM »

Union brainwashing. The Unions tell them they are for them and really are not. Unions are the most outdated organization in the U.S. right now.

Don't evn try to tell me that the GOP will stand up for the coal miners.  That's a joke.

Neither party will. The Unions just use and abuse their members. Legalized mafia.

Dems will stand up for the unions before the GOP will.  You think Gephardt wouldn't have stood up for them?

Sure, the Dems will stand up for the unions.  But for some reason you seem to equate that with standing up for the workers.

The unions act in the best interest of the unions.
Logged
Beefalow and the Consumer
Beef
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,123
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.77, S: -8.78

« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2004, 04:19:01 PM »

Until China unionizes, manufacturing jobs won't come back here.  However, by the time China unionizes everything will be mechanized so the jobs won't really come home; the only jobs that will be left are those that require creativity/ingenuity, and require college education or vocational training.

I'm most worried eabout OH and VA.  

Set your mind at ease about VA.  It's not in play.  I would worry about MO a lot sooner than I would worry about VA.

To a lesser extent WV and NH but we don't need those: the House would select Bush over Kerry anyday.  

The 12th Amendment isn't quite clear.  Is it the old House or the new House that gets to pick the President?

There are a lot of close House races this year.  It's possible that the Republicans won't control the necessary 26 state delegations.  There are about 15 "locks" and maybe 5 more that are pretty safely in Republican hands.  But they'll need some close races to go their way to control the Presidential vote.  Otherwise, whoever the Senate picks as VP becomes President.  Meaning, in the case of a Republican-controlled Senate: President Cheney!

The entire "North" only elects any Republicans because we still are fiscally conservative.  However, Bush isn't so he may loose the three northern states on that alone.  

There are two types of fiscal conservatives: those who favor balancing the budget, and those who favor low taxes.  Bush will do very well among tax hawks.

Virginia is pretty much MD and WV combined nowdays.  

Kinda, except most of VA is traditional conservative South, whereas that only accounts for three or four counties in MD.  Most of MD is urban/suburban Northeast Corridor, whereas that only accounts for the DC suburban portion of VA.

If Kerry takes WV he'll pobably take VA,

Not at all true.  The WV vote will be tied to jobs and unions.  The VA vote will be a much greater diversity of issues.

he has no chance in MD.  Then we're screwed unless we take PA.  However the old conservative suburbs are trending Democratic after 30 years are GOP stringholds.  

That has more to do with the Democrats moderating their message than with the suburbs changing their ideology.  It also has to do with job losses - which also has nothing to do with ideology.  The suburbs aren't "getting more liberal," as far as I can see.

That's how MD, CA, NJ, etc switched.  If the process continues GA, NC, OH, IN, NV, and AZ will follow soon, but probably not till 08.

Our time of dominance in the Presidential arena is drwaing to a close, I just hope that we can squeeze out one last victory before the Dems take over.

I see the opposite.  I see that the only way Democrats can make themselves palatable enough to win the White House is by steering to the center.  When was the last true liberal to occupy the White House?  You have to go back to LBJ.  When was the last northern, rank-and-file liberal Democrat President?  JFK.  (LBJ, though he was very liberal, came out of the wing of the Democrats that is now the Southern wing of the Republicans.)  In the last nine presidential elections, conservative Republicans have won 3 (80, 84, 00), moderate Republicans have won 3 (68, 72, 88), and moderate Democrats have won 3 (76, 92, 96).  Of those three Democrat victories, one was against an unelected VP handpicked by a President who was impeached and resigned in disgrace, one was a 43% popular plurality, with a 3rd party candidate who took away the conservative vote, and one was against a very weak Republican challenger to an incumbent.

If Kerry wins in 2004, it will only be because we have a President who is utterly reviled by about 40% of the country, AND an economy that has bled jobs over the course of his administration (whether or not it's his fault).  It does not represent Republican weakness.  If anything, with all of the hatred of Bush, and the high joblessness, this *should* be a Kerry landslide.  The fact that it is a battle goes to show how weak the Democrats are in Presidential politics.
Logged
Beefalow and the Consumer
Beef
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,123
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.77, S: -8.78

« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2004, 09:02:54 AM »

Virginia's changed. The old Conservative Democrats in Southern VA are dying off and are being replaced by Populist "Warner" Democrats who are less likely to vote split.
Meanwhile the DC suburbs keep growing and keep growing more liberal.

1984:


1988:


1992:


1996:


2000:


I am not seeing this.  Or am I missing something?


Logged
Beefalow and the Consumer
Beef
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,123
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.77, S: -8.78

« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2004, 11:21:03 AM »

Suburbs are getting increasingly socially liberal as time passes.  Maybe because of Columbine, or more recently because of the kid who brought 11 home-made bombs and a shot gun to his high school in Omaha last month, but in any case its happening.

I'm at a loss here.  Why would Columbine and students making bombs make people more socially liberal???  It might make them favor gun control, but that is *one issue*.  Favoring gun control does not make you "socially liberal."  If anything it would make people dig their heels in against violence in the media, and "godless secularism" in our culture.  

"Maybe if these boys had Jesus instead of Nietzche and Darwin this wouldn't have happened."

OK, that's a gross characterization, but I can't see the connection between Columbine and social liberalism.
Logged
Beefalow and the Consumer
Beef
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,123
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.77, S: -8.78

« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2004, 11:34:08 AM »

Meanwhile the DC suburbs keep growing and keep growing more liberal.

(VA presidential maps)

I am not seeing this.  Or am I missing something?


I think that these maps are misleading.  1st of all, one must keep in mind while reviewing these maps that in 1984 and 1988, NO ONE voted for Mondale or Dukakis; the numbers of Democrats in the state is obviously low.  In '92 there were so many Democratically-won counties b/c there were a lot of people voting for Perot.  In '96 Clinton won re-election b/c he was superpopular; he won the thing by a landslide.  And the reason for 2000 going back to Republicanism was because it was that way all along, as one can see from the examples listed above.

What you describe is the point I was trying to make.  VA from 84-00 showed no discernable trend away from favoring Republicans in Presidential elections.  If you adjust these results by the strenght of each candidate nationally, you would get pretty much identical maps from year to year.  Furthermore, there is zero evidence in those maps of the DC suburbs trending Democrat.

Now, just because they elect a Democrat Governor does not mean the state is trending Democrat, or becoming more liberal.  State politics and Presidential politics are two very different beasts.  Connecticut elected a Republican governor, but no one in their right mind would argue that CT is trending Republican at any point in the last 12 years.  South Dakota and Montana elected Democrat Senators, but you wouldn't say those states are trending Democrat, either.  In the case of Warner, it was the failure of his opponent, not a trend to the Left, that won him the election.
Logged
Beefalow and the Consumer
Beef
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,123
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.77, S: -8.78

« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2004, 12:52:08 PM »

In the case of Warner, it was the failure of his opponent, not a trend to the Left, that won him the election.

To say Warner won because of his oppenent isn't fair...
Inbetween his (narrow) defeat in the 1996 Senate race and the 2001 Gubernatorial election, Warner built up a machine in Southern Virginia by getting companies to invest there etc...

Fine, Warner won on the stregth of his candidacy, and his political machine.  My point is still the same.  He won because because he was better than his opponent, not because of the Democrats' strength as a party, or shifting ideologies among the voters.  Tommy Thompson was our Republican governor for 14 years, at a time when our state was very liberal (Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore).  It would have been wrong to conclude in 1988 that Wisconsin was trending Republican just because they elected a popular Republican governor.  Likewise, it would be wrong to conclude that Virginia is trending Democrat just because they elected a Democrat governor.
Logged
Beefalow and the Consumer
Beef
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,123
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.77, S: -8.78

« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2004, 02:48:30 PM »

It would however not be wrong to conclude that Virginia is trending liberal through observation of the media and demographics.  The DC Metro area contains roughly 30% of the state's population.  Bush won the VA portion of the DC metro area in 2000 by like an aggregate 7%.  This time he's going to loose it by like 5%.  That's a 12% shift in like 1/3, or a 4% shift in the overall.  VA will be close this time.

True. I don't see Bush winning Fairfax County this year... His main hope of hanging on to VA is rural Northern Virginia, the Richmond Outer suburbs and Virginia Beach

I actually find it surprising that Bush won Fairfax county, and maybe it goes to show my ignorance of the VA burbs.  That's the thing about the DC Metro: Maryland people (like I was) hardly ever cross the Patomic.  The Maryland side (PG and Monty) has always been rabidly Democrat, so I've always assumed the the VA side was as well.  Maybe it's just history catching up with them.

Still see no way Bush loses VA in 2004. Smiley
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.049 seconds with 11 queries.