Margaret Thatcher dies at 87

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I will be moderating this thread HEAVILY. Be warned.

Thank You, Alfleitch. Thank you.

I cried today. That is all I can say. I cried. I am devastated by the loss of the woman I admired more than any other.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

"She did not lead Britain. She saved Britain."

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I considered being solemn, but after seeing how the right reacted to Chavez's death I can't help but feel a bit of joy inside, however much I remind myself that she's still a human being.

The double standard by the Right re: Chavez and Thatcher is utterly ridiculous.

On Chavez: "Good riddance to the evil Commie dictator!"
On Thatcher: "Please have class and respect the dead!"

F-ck that.

Do you not understand that Chavez was a thug who forced his policies through as any dictator would? Do you not get the basic fact that Thatcher lost her share of political battles, while Chavez always won because he was the Nixon of South America? Thatcher was a democratic leader, and like her or not, deserves some respect, as does Obama, Jack Layton, or any other democratic leader. You are the hypocrite. Hypocrite is the only nice thing one can say, in fact. You are just being repulsive. Take a page from Ed Milliband (who I think will be the Labor version of Thatcher come 2015)...

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I will be moderating this thread HEAVILY. Be warned.

Thank You, Alfleitch. Thank you.

I cried today. That is all I can say. I cried. I am devastated by the loss of the woman I admired more than any other.

lol, sad.

Grow up.

I considered being solemn, but after seeing how the right reacted to Chavez's death I can't help but feel a bit of joy inside, however much I remind myself that she's still a human being.

Why do you feel joy when a women who has been out of power for 23 years, and was suffering with alzheimers, has died?

"Manchester United announced that they would not be honouring the former PM with a minute's silence prior to their match against rivals Manchester City at Old Trafford"

http://sidespin.kinja.com/margaret-thatcher-and-her-attempts-to-destroy-english-f-471243555?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

An Argentine player (Aguero) ended up scoring the winning goal. Heh.

Awesome.

That's quite amusing, aha.

Ironic. I guess Argentina gets the last laugh this time.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

So this just happened like 10 minutes from where I live. Seen it on twitter.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHW8lAyCAAAXbqV.jpg:large

I can't imagine the Irish reaction right now...

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Do you not understand that Chavez was a thug who forced his policies through as any dictator would? Do you not get the basic fact that Thatcher lost her share of political battles, while Chavez always won because he was the Nixon of South America? Thatcher was a democratic leader, and like her or not, deserves some respect, as does Obama, Jack Layton, or any other democratic leader. You are the hypocrite.

OK, you're not a hypocrite. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

Did Thatcher shut down opposition news services? I did not think so.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I love how we still get messages from Simfan. His commentary is still worth reading.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I will be moderating this thread HEAVILY. Be warned.

Thank You, Alfleitch. Thank you.

I cried today. That is all I can say. I cried. I am devastated by the loss of the woman I admired more than any other.

How is this even possible for an American? How old are you?

When you admire someone, and view them as an inspiration of what leadership is, is it not a natural reaction?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

My point was centered around ChairmanSanchez (assumedly) not being old enough to observe any of Thatcher's premiership firsthand as much as it was his nationality. I doubt any Brits from this generation cry when watching the clip of JFK's head exploding.

This is a silly thing to argue about either way, as they're another man's emotions, not mine. I just couldn't help but sense the embellishment.

Should liberals not admire FDR for his actions, even if they were born forty years after he died? Was JFK alive when any of the Brits from this generation were alive?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

What are you, twelve? Moronic opinions that are factually wrong to the point of absurdity do not deserve to be treated with anything other than abuse.

Once again Al, you are 100% correct. This is the precise reason your original post and title have not changed since the start of the thread .

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Appearently, we'll now have Margaret Thatcher Circle in Warsaw.

God, how I hate this f**king country.

See, I can agree that is a bit unnecessary and somewhat of very much a knee jerk reaction to a death.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8

I loved the shout "we can't take it" from the Tory bench. Hard to take the truth indeed.

And the Speaker's reaction to fake outrage, priceless.

Typical celebrity turned politician hypocrite is hypocritical. Maybe when Glenda Jackson moves into a council house and gives her Oscar award to a homeless person I will take her seriously. At least George Galloway and Gerry Adams seem sincere in there thrashings.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Typical celebrity turned politician

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8

I loved the shout "we can't take it" from the Tory bench. Hard to take the truth indeed.

And the Speaker's reaction to fake outrage, priceless.

Typical celebrity turned politician hypocrite is hypocritical. Maybe when Glenda Jackson moves into a council house and gives her Oscar award to a homeless person I will take her seriously. At least George Galloway and Gerry Adams seem sincere in there thrashings.

Glenda Jackson was by no means born into it and she was brought up in a part of the country particularly hurt by Mags.

(Also, of note to UK posters, I'd never have guessed that Dan Hodges was her son!)

Neither was Thatcher, or the businessmen who benefited under her? So, because Glenda Jackson was born poor, she gets to live in a nice house, which she rightfully earned by starring in excellent movies, but all the other capitalists are "cruel."

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8

I loved the shout "we can't take it" from the Tory bench. Hard to take the truth indeed.

And the Speaker's reaction to fake outrage, priceless.

Typical celebrity turned politician hypocrite is hypocritical. Maybe when Glenda Jackson moves into a council house and gives her Oscar award to a homeless person I will take her seriously. At least George Galloway and Gerry Adams seem sincere in there thrashings.

So becoming rich but wanting an equal society anyway because you've known what it's like not to be is considered hypocritical to you, but a woman who professed to roll back the state (in actuality just subsidies and support for the working class) whilst centralising power and proscribing which videos could be watched and precisely what schools were allowed to (or in this case couldn't) teach on homosexuality isn't. Oh and supporting authoritarian dictators lol.  

So, when is Glenda Jackson gonna give up 83% of her annual earnings? Tell me, do you personally think you are entitled to healthcare primarily funded with money from Glenda Jackson’s wallet?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8

I loved the shout "we can't take it" from the Tory bench. Hard to take the truth indeed.

And the Speaker's reaction to fake outrage, priceless.

Typical celebrity turned politician hypocrite is hypocritical. Maybe when Glenda Jackson moves into a council house and gives her Oscar award to a homeless person I will take her seriously. At least George Galloway and Gerry Adams seem sincere in there thrashings.

So becoming rich but wanting an equal society anyway because you've known what it's like not to be is considered hypocritical to you, but a woman who professed to roll back the state (in actuality just subsidies and support for the working class) whilst centralising power and proscribing which videos could be watched and precisely what schools were allowed to (or in this case couldn't) teach on homosexuality isn't. Oh and supporting authoritarian dictators lol.  

So, when is Glenda Jackson gonna give up 83% of her annual earnings? Tell me, do you personally think you are entitled to healthcare primarily funded with money from Glenda Jackson’s wallet?

Probably when she adopts the laughable notion that voluntary charity is the best way to redistribute wealth and help the struggling working classes despite its complete failure to do just that in Victorian times. As for healthcare - absolutely, and she probably does to.

As for healthcare - absolutely, and she probably does to.

So, you think the upper 1% should pay for your needs. In other words, you are a contemptible parasite. It is not an unfair idea for a national sales tax or flat income tax that puts all people in the same bracket to cover a national healthcare plan. It is unfair for the wealthy people at the top to pay for your healthcare because you have not earned the money they have earned in life. Everyone has one basic thing that makes them equal-your natural instinct to make a profit if you choose to follow it.  The fact that you support the redistribution of wealth in order to save your own money proves this instinct.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8

I loved the shout "we can't take it" from the Tory bench. Hard to take the truth indeed.

And the Speaker's reaction to fake outrage, priceless.

Typical celebrity turned politician hypocrite is hypocritical. Maybe when Glenda Jackson moves into a council house and gives her Oscar award to a homeless person I will take her seriously. At least George Galloway and Gerry Adams seem sincere in there thrashings.

So becoming rich but wanting an equal society anyway because you've known what it's like not to be is considered hypocritical to you, but a woman who professed to roll back the state (in actuality just subsidies and support for the working class) whilst centralising power and proscribing which videos could be watched and precisely what schools were allowed to (or in this case couldn't) teach on homosexuality isn't. Oh and supporting authoritarian dictators lol. 

So, when is Glenda Jackson gonna give up 83% of her annual earnings? Tell me, do you personally think you are entitled to healthcare primarily funded with money from Glenda Jackson’s wallet?

Probably when she adopts the laughable notion that voluntary charity is the best way to redistribute wealth and help the struggling working classes despite its complete failure to do just that in Victorian times. As for healthcare - absolutely, and she probably does to. As for healthcare - absolutely, and she probably does to.

So, you think the upper 1% should pay for your needs. In other words, you are a contemptible parasite. It is not an unfair idea for a national sales tax or flat income tax that puts all people in the same bracket to cover a national healthcare plan. It is unfair for the wealthy people at the top to pay for your healthcare because you have not earned the money they have earned in life. Everyone has one basic thing that makes them equal-your natural instinct to make a profit if you choose to follow it.  The fact that you support the redistribution of wealth in order to save your own money proves this instinct.

Doubt I've read such horsesh**t, congrats. I do indeed support progressive taxation like most normal people (excluding capitalist apologists like yourself) because otherwise the actual parasites - the capitalists - in our economy would quickly turn healthcare into something working-class couldn't afford (like many in your country couldn't) for their own profit, and to assert that my opposition to it proves your ludicrous rule is astonishing: it's not about 'saving my own money', I wouldn't have any money to save (and most people find the notion of profit re healthcare to be abhorrent btw). Which brings us neatly round to your parasites again - prepared to enforce and strengthen an absurdly unequal pay for equal work but 'contemptible' when it's taxed unequally. Cry me a river.

Capitalist apologist? What is there to apologize for? Capitalism is natural. To say capitalism is bad for humanity is equivalent to saying homosexuality is bad for humanity-it is a natural instinct in man. The definition of a parasite is the following:

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How do the capitalist live off their “hosts” expense? The businesses they run: are they not built on the capital first placed into creating the business by the owner? Or do the employees put in the money to start the company, and then the owner milks all the profit from it while the employees get nothing? No business has ever been built on the latter format, except in collectivist societies.

Your final sentence implies that CEO’s and business owners do not work hard. Have you managed hundreds of stores, tried to arrange massive transportation networks, and continue to keep costs in check? It’s impossible to do alone. Assistants must be hired, and these assistants have to be managed as well.

All in all, the ultimate failure of socialism is the fact that it contradicts mans natural individualist nature.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Capitalism is sociopathic, allowing millions to die through enforced scarcity of resources whilst sections live in abundance. If it was so 'natural' why did it take so long for it to emerge?

Human beings are naturally sociopathic people, I am ashamed to say. I believe in the concept of original sin. The people at the top are going to want to stay there.

You are arguing that capitalism did not develop until later in history because it is not natural. Yes, the modern free enterprise form of capitalism which I subscribe do has only come about in the last four hundred years or so. But were the days of feudalism and serfdom where people were not considered human and were bound to the land they toiled on with their masters reaping in all the fruits of their labor not a sociopathic system? It seems to me that you are equating selfishness only to free market capitalism.

They may start businesses through having the capital in the first place, but their success is dependent on workers - who, through the course of capitalism are seeing the remuneration for their work fall ever further - below subsistence in many cases - with profits funneled to the capitalists.

This is true, but it comes to the basic argument that they are employed by choice. Don’t like the work, don’t work there. The argument that “all work is like this” or “they have not other choice” is silly. I am looking for employment right now. I will go dig ditches if someone will have me. It may not pay the bills for a grown man with a family, but ifs an option if he is that opposed to the policies of his employer.

No one's ever said that managers don't have stress in their jobs, but no more so than the underpaid and overworked workers (much less so in my direct experience) and yet are paid astronomical multiples - that continue to grow each year in spite of everything. Case in point being our significant, and expanding, sector in the UK: our supermarkets.

Position is based upon your education and your work ethic. If a man studies hard, he goes to a good university (with the help of loans from an institution which he is legally and morally obligated to pay back), and if he goes to a good university, he is more qualified for the position he seeks then the average worker. Some people are able to work their way from the bottom up, and their position reflects their work ethic.

Not even mentioning those who evade tax whilst seeing fit to benefit from the society taxes provided.

This I agree is repugnant.

The failure of socialism was its belief it could be self-contained whilst the rest of the world remained capitalist (especially in economically insignificant areas). Socialism has to be delivered by the working class around the world, if it is ever to be successful. Thankfully your lot are making capitalism increasingly untenable.

Socialism failed in the USSR and in China because men are corrupt, and their values become corrupted. One day, when I am digging ditches or doing whatever I need to do to earn money, I am going to be hurt, and my reaction is naturally going to want someone else to pay for me. If a man can get ahead under Socialism, he is going to try to get ahead. Look at the high levels of corruption in China.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

On the subject of Glenda Jackson, I will concede this: her speech was one of the most passionate I have ever heard. I am re-listening to it right now, because it was just so good. It was amazing, not the substance of course, but the general tone and rhetoric of it.