CNN: NH: Hillary and Sanders in a tight race (user search)
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  CNN: NH: Hillary and Sanders in a tight race (search mode)
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Author Topic: CNN: NH: Hillary and Sanders in a tight race  (Read 4255 times)
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Icefire9
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« on: June 25, 2015, 09:14:56 PM »

Kind of depressing that 1/3 of New Hampshire Democrats are willing to throw away their chance at the presidency just so they can have an ideologically pure candidate.
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Icefire9
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2015, 06:47:36 AM »

It's much harder for Sanders to win the primary than the general. If he's a talented enough campaigner to snag the nomination away from Hillary, to say he can't beat the Republican nominee is delusional.
Fair enough.  That being said, I don't intend to make things easier for him.  He's going to need to prove himself before I can even think about supporting him.
I'd rather lose the GE with Bernie Sanders, a candidate who stands for something - rather than losing with the bloodless, deceiving liar and corporate enabler Hillary Clinton.
Sounds an awful lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face.  You go do that, meanwhile I'll actually try to win elections. 
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Icefire9
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2015, 08:19:30 AM »

It's much harder for Sanders to win the primary than the general. If he's a talented enough campaigner to snag the nomination away from Hillary, to say he can't beat the Republican nominee is delusional.
Fair enough.  That being said, I don't intend to make things easier for him.  He's going to need to prove himself before I can even think about supporting him.
I'd rather lose the GE with Bernie Sanders, a candidate who stands for something - rather than losing with the bloodless, deceiving liar and corporate enabler Hillary Clinton.
Sounds an awful lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face.  You go do that, meanwhile I'll actually try to win elections. 

Winning elections alone does not matter though, if you give up all your principles. It seems you have no self-confidence if you believe that Sanders cannot win an election. People said the same about Obama and then he defeated her and won the GE twice. Please, just give a damn about what the GE polls say right now, because if Sanders can run a campaign like Obama's - then even a Social Democrat like him can be elected POTUS. The thing with Hillary is that she's terribly flawed and is likely to collapse towards the end of the GE campaign and lose in a landslide. With Sanders, you have the opportunity to re-create the Democratic waves of 2008 and 2012 and win the election. Hillary on the other hand is so terrible that she'll cause a record low turnout and hand the election to Bush or any other Republican, because progressive Democrats and especially Independents stay home in disgust ...
I have plenty of self confidence.  I have confidence in liberal ideas and policies.  I have little confidence in Bernie Sanders.  Bernie Sanders is no Barack Obama.  Even if he was another Barack Obama, Obama's election was a once in a generation event.  No one will be able to replicate the magic of 2008, especially not Bernie Sanders.

Furthermore, do you really want to replicate the last 7 years of government?  Yeah, we won the general elections, but we got horribly defeated in the midterms.  We've lost control of both Houses of Congress and of most state governments. There is clearly a major flaw in the Obama strategy, and I for one am not interested in making the same mistakes all over again.

This article (http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122062/obama-gap-case-study-electoral-failure) explains my concerns very well.

Yes, Obama is a strong candidate.  But the Democratic Party isn't a strong party.  Obama's impressive organization hasn't done us any good in the midterms, and likely won't do us any good once he leaves office.

Like it or not, we need to strengthen the Democratic Party, and can you really tell me that Bernie Sanders (who isn't even a Democrat) will work hard to strengthen the party apparatus?  Bernie Sanders is a complete outsider, and as an outsider he'll work apart from the party.  Even if he can win general elections (which I'm obviously not convinced he can), we'll be in the same boat we've always been in the midterms and in downballot races.

Yes, Clinton has flaws (though we seem to have a fundamental disagreement on their severity and nature).  Yes, she's an old-timer and has a lot of baggage, but that means she's a known quantity and therefore very unlikely to collapse last minute.  Yes, she a creature of the establishment, but that means she'll do everything she can to make the Democratic Party strong again.
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