Under Act 10 Wisconsin successfully rids itself of bad and unnecessary teachers

[krazen1211]

Link

School districts are firing more teachers since new collective bargaining laws eliminated job protections granted by union contracts three years ago, according to the state’s teachers’ union and school board association.

It’s unclear how many teachers have been let go since nobody tracks it, but representatives from both the Wisconsin Education Association Council and the Wisconsin Association of School Boards said there has been a noticeable increase in contract non-renewals and terminations.

“I’ve talked to schools across the state about ... where there may be someone whose performance is unacceptable but it might have been difficult to non-renew (their contract) under a just-cause standard (in union contracts). It is now a lot less difficult,” said Barry Forbes, associate executive director and staff counsel for the school boards association.




Act 10 has just been upheld, again, in federal court, as these unions lose their ability to pillage the public treasury. Money can be returned to the people.

[krazen1211]

I have heard of a teacher who was caught 'reading' (and I deliberately understate what else he was doing) a pornographic magazine in a public school restroom and was fired for that. Drunk or on drugs? Get him out of the way!

Yes, one such drunk teacher is described on page 2 of the article.

[krazen1211]

A continuation of Walker policies will make Wisconsin an unattractive place in which to teach. People with strong sentimental attachments to the communities in which they were brought up might return to teach for a pittance (as the Koch syndicate desires), but if one is on the margin between teaching in places similar in attractions, climate, etc. .... one might choose to sign a teaching contract in Minneapolis instead of Milwaukee or Evanston instead of Kenosha.

On the other side, good teachers have skill sets desirable for other activities. Selling used cars might be more lucrative than teaching, and having pay limited to cost of living increases (if that) ensures that one at best treads water. Teaching could also become a short-term career that one abandons to be a stay-at-home mother as was often the case in the 1950s.   

Good teachers are precious. To be sure there are awful teachers who belittle students, those who set very low expectations for students and get the predictable results, those who hold onto teaching jobs only because they have relatives on the school board, those who exploit students for their own questionable agendas, and those who have substance problems. For good reason bad teachers need to be removed from the profession, and those who have behavioral traits inconsistent with teaching (like a short fuse) must be kept out.

I have heard of a teacher who was caught 'reading' (and I deliberately understate what else he was doing) a pornographic magazine in a public school restroom and was fired for that. Drunk or on drugs? Get him out of the way!

 

This job should be about improving the quality of education and if its just about trying to impoverish rival special interests or simply to lower or maintain  state/property taxes, then this is basically defrauding the children.

Precisely. It's about cutting staff and pay -- and destroying the potential clout of unions who are sure to oppose Scott Walker and indirectly the Koch syndicate that wishes to treat states like colonies to be exploited for cheap labor. Ill-educated people are easy to exploit.

The connection between increasing education and partisan affiliation used to strongly favor Republicans. It now favors Democrats.  The Republican Party increasingly shows its anti-intellectual qualities, and those now hit people who never considered themselves part of the intellectual elite.   

Correction. It's about reversing massive increases in staff and pay and preventing the Wisconsin taxpayer from being ripped to shreds.

Link

[krazen1211]

A continuation of Walker policies will make Wisconsin an unattractive place in which to teach. People with strong sentimental attachments to the communities in which they were brought up might return to teach for a pittance (as the Koch syndicate desires), but if one is on the margin between teaching in places similar in attractions, climate, etc. .... one might choose to sign a teaching contract in Minneapolis instead of Milwaukee or Evanston instead of Kenosha.

On the other side, good teachers have skill sets desirable for other activities. Selling used cars might be more lucrative than teaching, and having pay limited to cost of living increases (if that) ensures that one at best treads water. Teaching could also become a short-term career that one abandons to be a stay-at-home mother as was often the case in the 1950s.  

Good teachers are precious. To be sure there are awful teachers who belittle students, those who set very low expectations for students and get the predictable results, those who hold onto teaching jobs only because they have relatives on the school board, those who exploit students for their own questionable agendas, and those who have substance problems. For good reason bad teachers need to be removed from the profession, and those who have behavioral traits inconsistent with teaching (like a short fuse) must be kept out.

I have heard of a teacher who was caught 'reading' (and I deliberately understate what else he was doing) a pornographic magazine in a public school restroom and was fired for that. Drunk or on drugs? Get him out of the way!

  

This job should be about improving the quality of education and if its just about trying to impoverish rival special interests or simply to lower or maintain  state/property taxes, then this is basically defrauding the children.

Precisely. It's about cutting staff and pay -- and destroying the potential clout of unions who are sure to oppose Scott Walker and indirectly the Koch syndicate that wishes to treat states like colonies to be exploited for cheap labor. Ill-educated people are easy to exploit.

The connection between increasing education and partisan affiliation used to strongly favor Republicans. It now favors Democrats.  The Republican Party increasingly shows its anti-intellectual qualities, and those now hit people who never considered themselves part of the intellectual elite.  

Correction. It's about reversing massive increases in staff and pay and preventing the Wisconsin taxpayer from being ripped to shreds.

Link

Your own link shows Wisconson's expenditure per student only rose a whopping 9% over inflation during the entire decade of the 2000's, and only about 5% from 02 through 09.

You are again guilty of dishonesty and gross hyperbole.

How amusing for badger to intentionally omit the prior decades! Talk about dishonesty and gross hyperbole.

For the record, Scott Walker 'only' cut education spending at the state level by a mere 8%, not even inflation adjusted, which is of course quite consistent with rolling back the rampant onslaught on the taxpayers of Wisconsin.

[krazen1211]

If you really care about the increase in education spending during the 70's and 80's that much, I suggest running against Governor Tony Earl.

It is the voters of Union Buster Scott Walker who care, as well as those freed from draconian taxation.

Mr. Scott Walker was a student in Wisconsin in the early 1980s. He knows full well that such levels of spending were sufficient prior to the liberal Union assault on the public treasury.

[krazen1211]

If you really care about the increase in education spending during the 70's and 80's that much, I suggest running against Governor Tony Earl.

It is the voters of Union Buster Scott Walker who care, as well as those freed from draconian taxation.

Mr. Scott Walker was a student in Wisconsin in the early 1980s. He knows full well that such levels of spending were sufficient prior to the liberal Union assault on the public treasury.

Cut K-12 school spending enough and you get more school dropouts because schools have no means of rescuing at-risk students. Underfunded K-12 schools imply that fewer of their graduates are able to compete in a college environment. Add to that, the K-12 school system has become in effect a point of first contact for social welfare work.

The dream of the Hard Right is to have Third World wages and a depleted public sector but First World productivity. Such is as realistic as going into a Mercedes-Benz  dealership and expecting to buy a new Mercedes Benz with the cash suitable for buying a seven-year-old Chevrolet sedan. But at least a seven-year-old Chevrolet sedan may be useful for its purposes. Educational failure has no benign consequences.

Good government requires adequate taxes. Good work requires solid pay so that workers have an incentive other than abject fear that makes life hopeless.

Scott Walker is the sort of fellow who reminds me of the fellow who thinks that he can save money on cars by not doing oil changes and not getting the car washed in the winter (without those washes a car rusts out due to salt sloshed onto the chassis and frame) . Remember -- a seven-year-old Chevrolet sedan may still run well if it gets regular and necessary oil changes and regular winter car washes if the car is driven on roads salted to prevent icing. If it doesn't get them it is junk within seven years.

  

Too bad the real facts show that education spending is enormous by historical standards. We haven't cut education spending 'enough'.

The interesting thing about education is that failure leads liberals to demand more funding, so that liberals can continue the failure, so that liberals can demand more funding, so that liberals can create more failure! It's a great way to extort the treasury in a circle.

The dream of the left has been realized, in Wisconsin and elsewhere. The government education industry complex is looting well over $11k per student per year. $700 billion a year in the aggregate is looted from the productive sector.

[krazen1211]

Interesting points, Krazen.  I have to say I've learned quite a lot from you by reading your posts on the matter and have become educated in the negative role of teachers unions in public education.  You are quite the teache--OH NO YOU'VE BECOME ONE OF THEM.

DESTROY DESTROY

No, I am not one of them. My wisdom is free of charge.

[krazen1211]

Too bad the real facts show that education spending is enormous by historical standards. We haven't cut education spending 'enough'.

The interesting thing about education is that failure leads liberals to demand more funding, so that liberals can continue the failure, so that liberals can demand more funding, so that liberals can create more failure! It's a great way to extort the treasury in a circle.

The dream of the left has been realized, in Wisconsin and elsewhere. The government education industry complex is looting well over $11k per student per year. $700 billion a year in the aggregate is looted from the productive sector.

Of course it is huge. There are more children in school, and costs of everything related to education from teachers' salaries to heating and cooling fuel have risen.

Face it -- the American Right wants cheap, cowed labor that has two options -- work to exhaustion for near-starvation pay or starve. For those cast off there would be only starvation. For that one needs an uneducated workforce that would never be able to read a piece of anti-capitalist tract.  But if it is simply poorly educated it is usually ill-paid and unable to see anything wrong with "Workers of the World, Unite!"

Education is productive expenditure. It adds to later productivity, and one ignores it only if one expects children not to survive into adulthood.    

Actually in many states there aren't. Nationwide, the public school K-12 student population has barely grown since 1970.

That didn't stop the looters. DC public schools are up to $21k per year now looted from the treasury. Teacher salaries, benefits, and lavish pensions have of course skyrocketed in costs. That much is true.

You seem to cling to the curiosity that dumping more money into the government education industry complex is actually about productive expenditure.

[krazen1211]

Too bad the real facts show that education spending is enormous by historical standards. We haven't cut education spending 'enough'.

The interesting thing about education is that failure leads liberals to demand more funding, so that liberals can continue the failure, so that liberals can demand more funding, so that liberals can create more failure! It's a great way to extort the treasury in a circle.

The dream of the left has been realized, in Wisconsin and elsewhere. The government education industry complex is looting well over $11k per student per year. $700 billion a year in the aggregate is looted from the productive sector.

Of course it is huge. There are more children in school, and costs of everything related to education from teachers' salaries to heating and cooling fuel have risen.

Face it -- the American Right wants cheap, cowed labor that has two options -- work to exhaustion for near-starvation pay or starve. For those cast off there would be only starvation. For that one needs an uneducated workforce that would never be able to read a piece of anti-capitalist tract.  But if it is simply poorly educated it is usually ill-paid and unable to see anything wrong with "Workers of the World, Unite!"

Education is productive expenditure. It adds to later productivity, and one ignores it only if one expects children not to survive into adulthood.    

Actually in many states there aren't. Nationwide, the public school K-12 student population has barely grown since 1970.

That didn't stop the looters. DC public schools are up to $21k per year now looted from the treasury. Teacher salaries, benefits, and lavish pensions have of course skyrocketed in costs. That much is true.

You seem to cling to the curiosity that dumping more money into the government education industry complex is actually about productive expenditure.

The payoff isn't quick; underinvestment is costly.

I have been a substitute teacher, but I have never seen a school budget. School teaching is an extremely labor-intensive activity. 

$21K per year? You must be talking about new construction. Otherwise...

Teachers' salaries are a huge chunk of school cost. I am going to guess that they are about half the total cost of K-12 education, which probably shows how efficient public schools are at constraining cost. Public schools just don't have huge bureaucracies, which indicates how efficient teachers are (contrast retail salesclerks who have to be watched closely). There's about one supervisor to every dozen or so teachers who of course are better motivated than retail clerks.

That's before I talk about school staff, noon meals, heating and cooling expenses, supplies, textbooks, and bus  transportation.

The average certified teacher in Florida (probably close to the US average) makes $45K a year. For a class of fifteen (and in elementary school you would not want more than 15 students per teacher) that is about $3K per student.  The cost per teacher is probably higher in a shop class in high school -- but at that, kids taking shop class are going to have -- one hopes -- a quick payback as they get well-paying blue-collar jobs.

Do the math. $3K per student as teachers' salary probably translates to $6K per student. $21K per student might apply to (auto body) shop or carpentry shop, but I think we can accept that. Successes in shop classes are going to stick around, get good pay, and pay taxes.   

If the cost in an elementary school is $21K per student, then you might have good case for an audit. Note well: most school districts go through the accounts of the district very closely. Maybe Detroit doesn't; if I were in charge I would turn auditors loose and see whether money is going into something unrelated to education, physical plant, student transportation, or necessary administrative costs. If someone is putting liquor on an expense account or renting Mercedes-Benz vehicles while attending 'professional seminars' in Hawaii, then maybe that practice had better die.   

New construction in DC, where the public school population has been chopped in half since the late 1960? What a funny joke! $21k is the posted average for DC for all classrooms. It is of course not a mystery how this happens, as DC simply employs more unionized employees than comparable districts and lets them sit on the dole.

For the record, in the United States, salaries for instruction are a mere 35% of total education expenditures.  It used to be closer to 40% in the early 1990s when education cost the taxpayers much less money. Mathematics of course details a tripling of expenditures in certain designated categories, also known as 'Employee benefits'.

The unions, you see, were winning.

[krazen1211]

$21k is the posted average for DC for all classrooms. It is of course not a mystery how this happens, as DC simply employs more unionized employees than comparable districts and lets them sit on the dole.

For the record, in the United States, salaries for instruction are a mere 35% of total education expenditures.  It used to be closer to 40% in the early 1990s when education cost the taxpayers much less money. Mathematics of course details a tripling of expenditures in certain designated categories, also known as 'Employee benefits'.

The unions, you see, were winning.

Employee benefits are part of the compensation. With those included, teacher compensation is still somewhere near 50% of the cost of K-12 education.

Unions were not 'winning'. Costs of medical care and hence medical insurance have been skyrocketing. That is not a choice of the unions.

By the way -- teachers need unions to protect them from political pressures (make sure that you give the "right" spiel on partisan politics") and at times parents who use pressure groups to get unfair and probably detrimental advantages for their kids. Considering how I teach -- I expect all students to pay attention to me and to do assigned work in the classroom -- I could easily run into accusations of racist behavior. I believe in honest grading as part of the essence of academic freedom and good pedagogy. 

The word you used in your prior post is salaries. Thus, I posted the figure for salaries. I presumed you meant salaries when you say 'salaries, especially as your own math doubles the $3k into $6k to cover, well, something or another.

For the record, Philadelphia public schools has well over $14k per pupil in district run schools, and still whines for additional funding. Neat, eh? I would would how that audit would go!

Actually, they did one. They buy lots of stuff and don't know where it is.

What is not in dispute, of course, is that these unions request more expensive health care than the nation as a whole, which is why Teamsters is whining about Obamacare. That of course was their choice. Here in Philadelphia the unions are a primary opponent to commonsense cost saving mechanisms like consolidation of excess school capacity.

[krazen1211]

Krazen, not that I think any woman would have sex with you without using cash or roofies, but IF you ever reproduced (God forbid), would you want your child's public school's funding cut?

Or are you just assuming you'll have money to send any of your procreated seed to private schools, so you happily say "F$%k the world!!" to everyone else who doesn't?

It would certainly not be a bad thing given how expensive public schooling is.

A more prudent question is whether Badger wants Badger's children's taxes raised, because that will be required if spending per pupil, skyrockets, again, over the next 30 years, like it did over the past 30.


To provide a more practical example, Mr. Scott Walker's sons (born in 1993 and 1994) attended public schools in Wisconsin. I believe one or both have graduated in the last couple years, even after Mr. Walker's minimal haircut to spending. Some liberals earlier decided to smear them on facebook.