Gunman near UCSB kills 6 people, injures 7

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It brings me no pleasure to be the one to tell the forum this, but 'incel' in some of those tags in Flo's screenshots stands for 'involuntarily celibate'; as a subset of the general MRA/Nice Guy movement the 'incel' 'community' has given us such online luminaries as Governments Get Girlfriends (now known as That Incel Blogger--sample comment: 'Oh, it’s very real, my dear mangina. Real to everybody but people like you supporting their murderous acts.'), and many of them openly admire or at least sympathize with George Sodini. So Rodger has a (fortunately small) pantheon to join.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

They've found three more bodies in Rodger's apartment.

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The kid had Asperger syndrome

That's no excuse or even explanation.

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Anyone have a link to the Manifesto? This is a new form of ressentiment to me.

I only got about a page and a half in before I couldn't stand being in this guy's head any more. Don't say I didn't warn you.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

also

.......

On the whole, I'd much rather run into Aileen Wuornos than this guy.

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Why didn't this guy just hire a prostitute?

If sweet, innocent opebo were still here, he would be explaining to us how this could only ever happen in the anti-prostitution Bad Place.

I, at least, would rather have a random poster like Deus bring up the question and move on than a full-fledged opebo prostitution derail, is the thing.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Rape culture is real and extremely relevant here.

What the term 'rape culture' means is real but I'm beginning to think that there should be another term to describe it. Preferably something slightly less snappy, actually, for various reasons.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

>yfw when mentally ill people are on average less likely to harm others than the non-mentally ill

Just as to the point, are far more likely to be victims of violence than the non-mentally ill.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Republicans will always have access to entertainment as long as gun-control liberals, who rarely know anything about guns, continue to tell everyone the proper way to use guns and own guns. It's like letting children dictate driving regulations.

It would be like that in countries with other cultural priorities. Here it's more like letting sober people dictate drug control policy.

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We've been letting sober people who know nothing about drugs dictate drug policy for quite a while now. How's that working out?

The solution to that problem is to put drug policy in the hands of sober people who do know something about drugs, rather than into the hands of people on drugs. Which is basically what you're saying too:

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...but my concern is that the AggregateDemands of this world would then claim that those people know nothing about guns.

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...but my concern is that the AggregateDemands of this world would then claim that those people know nothing about guns.

Sensible gun owners who want gun control, like me, are vilified as militia hurr-durrs by the left-wing purity movement, who are only interested in eliminating guns or achieving pointless political objectives.

We have two problems: organized-crime gun violence and high-profile mass murder by mentally-ill citizens. Democrats don't appear particularly interested in addressing either problem, thus, they never muster the votes to get anything done. Dems don't care because inaction fuels the right-wing conspiracy narrative that Democrats love to proliferate.

May I ask what kinds of gun control measures you support, specifically and in as much detail as you care to go into? Keep in mind that a ton of people meet medical definitions of mental illness who don't meet legal definitions, that the medical definitions aren't always indicative of whether or not somebody is dangerous because of the sheer staggering variety of mental illnesses out there, and also that a lot of the time it's easy to say it should have been obvious that someone was mad in retrospect.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

AggregateDemand, you know that enforcement of the Gun Control Act of 1968--while an admirable thing in and of itself--would not actually have done much to stop Elliot Rodger, specifically, right?

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AggregateDemand, you know that enforcement of the Gun Control Act of 1968--while an admirable thing in and of itself--would not actually have done much to stop Elliot Rodger, specifically, right?

He was mentally-ill and he was seeking treatment.

Was he in therapy for anything other than (alleged) Asperger's Syndrome? Is this known? You do know that not everybody who's seeing a psychotherapist is the kind of 'mentally ill' that shouldn't be or isn't supposed to be allowed access to firearms, right?

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That's not what the Gun Control Act of 1968 does because that's not what 'adjudicated as a mental defective' means.

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That's not what the Gun Control Act of 1968 does because that's not what 'adjudicated as a mental defective' means.

I understand how adjudication works because I used to help people file for court adjudication so they could institutionalize their mentally-ill relatives. I also once acted as a contractor to help lawyers manage financial fiduciary for disabled vets. Several veterans managed to purchase firearms "legally" (clearing NICS) though they had obviously been adjudicated as mentally-ill.

What several people don't understand is that the rate of institutionalization for mentally-ill Americans has fallen 10-fold since GCA 1968, due to advancements in psychoactive drugs and psychological therapy. People are not less mentally-ill, and GCA 1968 is not less opposed to ownership by mentally-ill Americans. Instead, the executive branch and the legislature have not worked together to enforce a modern definition of adjudication, and the executive branch, in particular, has not used executive order to make agencies report the usage of mental health services and drug use.

Perhaps Elliot Rodger's situation would have required legislative acts, but it would be nothing more than a de facto enforcement of the laws as they were written almost 50 years ago.

Again: Is there any evidence that Rodger had any mental illness or anything specific and certifiable for which he was in therapy other than Asperger's Syndrome? Because I haven't seen any.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Again: Is there any evidence that Rodger had any mental illness or anything specific and certifiable for which he was in therapy other than Asperger's Syndrome? Because I haven't seen any.

One month before the rampage, Rodger's family called the police because they thought he was a threat to himself and others. I doubt it was an isolated incident.

I'm aware of that but I was under the impression that that occurred after Rodger had bought the guns. Also, like Marokai said, whatever was wrong with him was clearly not being treated properly--if it even could have been; not every evil and depravity can be talked or drugged out of a person's psyche, nor for that matter SHOULD that be the case--so it's not as if we can be sure that the structures would have been in place to prevent him from acquiring firearms under your preferred interpretation of the spirit of the Gun Control Act of 1968 even if were being enforced that way. Some people are not going to have their mental illness treated. This is unavoidable unless you implement a regulatory and punitive regime on the mentally ill far worse by any but the most depraved stretch of the imagination than what gun owners could possibly fear being deployed against them.

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Well that certainly betrays a somewhat sensationalist understanding of how the autistic spectrum works.

You know, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm of the opinion that Democrats will always have access to entertainment as long as Second-Amendment conservatives, who rarely know anything about psychology, continue to tell everyone the proper way to identify and treat mental and neurological conditions. It's like letting children dictate driving regulations.