Illegal vs undocumented

[Horus]

He shouldn’t have apologized.

[Horus]

He shouldn’t have apologized.

Why not? He offended a decent chunk of his base and it’s a very easy thing to make it better.

If accurate terminology offends you you should really grow a pair.

[Horus]

Saying someone is an illegal is a dehumanizing term. Biden did the right thing to apologize.

Dehumanizing cold blooded killers is okay, actually. The only other world leader who would balk at such a term is Trudeau - not good company.

[Horus]

Saying someone is an illegal is a dehumanizing term. Biden did the right thing to apologize.

Dehumanizing cold blooded killers is okay, actually. The only other world leader who would balk at such a term is Trudeau - not good company.

Yeah but he's doing it in the context of undocumented immigrants as a class. It works very much like a racial slur. And we would recognize racial slurs as unacceptable even when used against rapists and murderers because they implicate innocent people by implicitly grouping them together with the killer on the basis of a perceived shared identity.

The only thing this guy necessarily has in common with other undocumented immigrants is they happened to be born outside the U.S. but they wanted to be here so much that they came without authorization.

Undocumented immigrants made the choice to cut in line and cheat the system. Undocumented is not an unchangeable characteristic like race either. They are a group of people who broke the law. All of them.

[Horus]

Saying someone is an illegal is a dehumanizing term. Biden did the right thing to apologize.

Dehumanizing cold blooded killers is okay, actually. The only other world leader who would balk at such a term is Trudeau - not good company.

Yeah but he's doing it in the context of undocumented immigrants as a class. It works very much like a racial slur. And we would recognize racial slurs as unacceptable even when used against rapists and murderers because they implicate innocent people by implicitly grouping them together with the killer on the basis of a perceived shared identity.

The only thing this guy necessarily has in common with other undocumented immigrants is they happened to be born outside the U.S. but they wanted to be here so much that they came without authorization.

Undocumented immigrants made the choice to cut in line and cheat the system. Undocumented is not an unchangeable characteristic like race either

Yes, but that's not the reason they're hated by Republican. Look, there are obviously legitimate arguments against unlimited immigration but lets not pretend the GOP dehumanizes undocumented immigrants for any other reason than the majority being non-white. There's just enough wiggle room for them to have plausible deniability. Remember when they claimed their only problem was with ILLEGAL immigration because "oh its totally unfair to legal immigrants who got in line blah blah"? And within months of when Trump got into office they start to try to cut legal immigration as well. By 2020 they are even onto going through decades of naturalization applications to try and find excuses to denaturalize people. Don't play along with it.

I have criticized the GOP too, but that doesn't mean change the meaning of words. If most illegal immigrants were from Russia or even a white Hispanic country like Argentina, I'm sure the GOP would be different here. I wouldn't.

And none of that makes "illegal" an inherently offensive or false term. You're just falling into negative polarization. Don't play along with that.

[Horus]

You admitted that "illegal" is a dehumanizing term at the start of this conversation. Anyway, my position is the same as Ferguson and emailking. "Illegal immigrant" is fine. "Illegal" as a noun is generally speaking a racially motivated pejorative.

That's the thing, I don't personally find it dehumanizing. It's accurate. My point is even if it were dehumanizing in the way you say, it's not the same as a racial slur. People made the choice to break the rules, cut in front of the immigrants coming here properly, and then act all entitled and offended when called what they are. No one chooses their race. You are letting the conservatives define the terms.