Former Democratic Senate nominee claims "Ketchup packets are not available in rural areas."

[jimrtex]

https://twitter.com/paulajean2020/status/1416952748134731779
I'm starting to understand why she underperformed Biden.

Do people in rural areas depend on catsup in plastic packets? I think you would buy it in squeeze bottles or even gallon jugs or cans. It would be easier to water down that way and probably quite a lot cheaper.

[jimrtex]

Unless you live in a ski resort, there's nowhere in West Virginia where you're not <20 minutes from the nearest McDonalds, of which there are also dozens in the state.

This is just flat out wrong - and if you knew anything about the Appalachian Plateau, you'd know simply looking at a map and trying to gauge time/distance based on linear miles couldn't be more inaccurate.

People think West Virginia is just a bunch of hillbillies living up in the Appalachian mountains.  The Appalachians don't even go through WV.  They're primarily in western Virginia and WV only has the western foothills.

...

Again, completely wrong - and again, looking at a simple map doesn't tell you anything. I'm sure you noticed the long stringy mountain chains and assumed that's all that comprises the Appalachians. What runs through VA/NC/GA etc is the Blue Ridge Mountains/R&V segment of the Appalachians. The part that runs through KY/WV etc is the Appalachian Plateau: devoid of all the neat, straight ridge & valley formations that exist through the aforementioned region and at a higher elevation for the most part. It's why a lot of places in WV can take upwards of an hour to navigate to/from despite only being 10 linear miles apart.

There is a McDonalds in Madison, WV which is 25 minutes from both Lake and Barrett.

If you lived in either Lake or Barrett you will have a way to get to Madison (your truck or a friends) or you grow your own food, raise chickens, and hunt squirrel. If you grow your own food, you will can your own catsup.

There are two grocery stores in Madison, including a Krogers, and several restaurants, serving Mexican, Pizza, Spaghetti, KFC, and McDonalds. If you are doing groceries once a week, you can drive on into Charleston.

[jimrtex]

Unless you live in a ski resort, there's nowhere in West Virginia where you're not <20 minutes from the nearest McDonalds, of which there are also dozens in the state.

This is just flat out wrong - and if you knew anything about the Appalachian Plateau, you'd know simply looking at a map and trying to gauge time/distance based on linear miles couldn't be more inaccurate.

People think West Virginia is just a bunch of hillbillies living up in the Appalachian mountains.  The Appalachians don't even go through WV.  They're primarily in western Virginia and WV only has the western foothills.

...

Again, completely wrong - and again, looking at a simple map doesn't tell you anything. I'm sure you noticed the long stringy mountain chains and assumed that's all that comprises the Appalachians. What runs through VA/NC/GA etc is the Blue Ridge Mountains/R&V segment of the Appalachians. The part that runs through KY/WV etc is the Appalachian Plateau: devoid of all the neat, straight ridge & valley formations that exist through the aforementioned region and at a higher elevation for the most part. It's why a lot of places in WV can take upwards of an hour to navigate to/from despite only being 10 linear miles apart.

There is a McDonalds in Madison, WV which is 25 minutes from both Lake and Barrett.

If you lived in either Lake or Barrett you will have a way to get to Madison (your truck or a friends) or you grow your own food, raise chickens, and hunt squirrel. If you grow your own food, you will can your own catsup.

There are two grocery stores in Madison, including a Krogers, and several restaurants, serving Mexican, Pizza, Spaghetti, KFC, and McDonalds. If you are doing groceries once a week, you can drive on into Charleston.

Please don't be pedantic here. I zoomed in randomly and picked a random route where ~10 linear miles = close to an hour of travel by car: not a route that's very far from a McDonald's specifically. There are hundreds of examples throughout the state (particularly the further east you go) such as the above that may (or may not) be far from any national fast-food chain. The broader point is that there are plenty of areas that are extremely isolated from any meaningful form of civilization relative to most areas regardless of linear miles (which given OP's simplistic interpretation about how WV isn't in "Appalachia", is relevant to the level of detail he used).

The argument was made that most persons in West Virginia lived within 20 minutes of a McDonalds.

Your contrary illustration was that it was hard to travel between two remote hollows, neither of which are large enough to have any restaurants or stores of any kind - unless someone has a small store in a converted porch. They may sell crackers, but any ketchup will be in larger containers or cans.

But these two random hollows share a common location that does have a McDonald's.

And if you are in Barrett, WV it is even closer to Van, WV where the schools are, and which has a dollar store, which surely has crackers and catsup. And the High School serves breakfast. For that matter, a school is a surer sign of civilization than McDonald's isn't it?

Nobody lives in eastern West Virginia. I don't know whether the Greenbriar has ketchup. You may have to make do with cocktail sauce.

[jimrtex]

The argument was made that most persons in West Virginia lived within 20 minutes of a McDonalds.

Your contrary illustration was that it was hard to travel between two remote hollows, neither of which are large enough to have any restaurants or stores of any kind - unless someone has a small store in a converted porch. They may sell crackers, but any ketchup will be in larger containers or cans.

But these two random hollows share a common location that does have a McDonald's.

And if you are in Barrett, WV it is even closer to Van, WV where the schools are, and which has a dollar store, which surely has crackers and catsup. And the High School serves breakfast. For that matter, a school is a surer sign of civilization than McDonald's isn't it?

Nobody lives in eastern West Virginia. I don't know whether the Greenbriar has ketchup. You may have to make do with cocktail sauce.

The argument was in regards to a broad claim made by GMA (that WV isn't mountainous/Appalachian, that people aren't poor there and that the state isn't difficult to navigate compared to most others). The reality is that there are many hollers and towns with only a handful of people in them, but they are everywhere and traversing even a short geographical distance in most directions takes twice as long as it would even in other Appalachian regions. All of that adds up. It's not inherently about whether ketchup packets are present or whether one particular fast-food chain exists, but the cumulative effect of all of it on retail, commercial, residential and even familial dynamics.

And 40% of West Virginians live in the eastern portions (excluding the Panhandle, where another 10% live), which was roughly the only area GMA was implying was Appalachian by any stretch.

You responded to a claim that there wasn't a McDonald's within 20 minutes of every person in the Mountain State. But even Barrett is within 25 minutes. And Barrett is extremely isolated. It takes 15 minutes to get to the schools in Van, and Van HS is literally one of the smallest high schools in the state (108 students).

Incidentally, there are 138 McDonald's in West Virginia or about one for every 12,500 persons.

This is what I was referring to as eastern West Virginia. You can't seriously claim that McDowell and Raleigh or the Monongahela valley are in eastern West Virginia. You might as well claim Pittsburgh or Hancock county because if you go east you are in Pennsylvania.

https://davesredistricting.org/join/09177813-40d0-4640-a648-9405659557ba

Just pick out the counties with large election precincts. These 12 counties have barely more than Kanawha County.

It is indeed hard to find a McDonald's near the Pocahontas County, perhaps an hour drive from Marlinton. But there are plenty of restaurants in Marlinton. They might not have catsup, but they may have endive. And there is a DQ if you want a burger.

[jimrtex]

Access to McDonald's

https://davesredistricting.org/join/09177813-40d0-4640-a648-9405659557ba

Red: McDonald's in county seat*
Yellow: McDonald's within 20 minutes of county seat.
Green: McDonald's within 20-30 minutes of county seat.
Blue: McDonald's more than 30 minutes from county seat.

The last two represent 3.7% of the population that can be considered McDonald's deserts.