How would have Hillary's 2008 map differed? (user search)
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  How would have Hillary's 2008 map differed? (search mode)
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Author Topic: How would have Hillary's 2008 map differed?  (Read 15049 times)
"'Oeps!' De blunders van Rick Perry Indicted"
DarthNader
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« on: August 13, 2014, 05:53:43 PM »
« edited: August 13, 2014, 05:55:38 PM by Brian Schweitzer's Gaydar »

Obviously, some of this was underdog sympathy but by the end of the '08 primaries, Clinton was leading McCain, in some cases substantially, in polls of Arkansas, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri and West Virginia. She trailed narrowly (five or less) in four Obama states: CO, IA, NC, WI. The one O state where she trailed badly (nine points) was VA, but Obama was down eight in the same poll.

Now, what happened between May and the election? The economy crashed. This would only have helped Clinton's chances, just as it did Obama's IRL. Arguably it would have helped her more because of her husband's economic record.

I don't think she would have carried Louisiana. She might not have focused on Indiana or the district in Nebraska. But her potential to carry Southern/border states while holding on to most of Obama's map was clearly there based on contemporaneous polling.  
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"'Oeps!' De blunders van Rick Perry Indicted"
DarthNader
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 483


« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2014, 08:57:52 PM »
« Edited: August 19, 2014, 09:03:20 PM by "'Oeps!' De blunders van Rick Perry Indicted" »

With the exception of AR, the polls cited show Hillary usually doing poorly (e.g. KY) or middling (IN & MO) against McCain in the McCain states you mentioned (the only WV poll showed her 5 points up in Feb, fwiw). By contrast, she was regularly and consistently losing most of the Obama states mentioned (see NC, VA, CO, IA, WI).

A lot of those polls you allude to already looked outdated by April/May (if there had been a later WV poll, I would've included it). McCain - especially in blue-leaning states - was quite strong early in the cycle; he led Clinton and tied Obama in winter polls of Oregon, for instance.  That's kinda the point I was making with the economy - there are things that would have lifted Clinton's numbers in the Obama states she was losing (namely the recession) but what was going to lift McCain in KY, WV, AR, MO? Aside from AR, even Obama's showing in those states was halfway respectable: he nearly won MO and despite "racist Appalachians" basically held water with Kerry in the other two.

Now, Clinton was hardly certain to carry any of those states. But was McCain, in the teeth of a financial collapse, really going to win VA? A state that had been trending Dem at nearly all levels for several consecutive elections?

Like I said before, I don't know if Hillary would have targeted IN. But her three-point lead in Survey USA's last poll of the state was actually superior to Obama's one-point margin, identical to what he mustered that fall. (In May SUSA also had Clinton stronger in NC.)

I think once you get out of the Upper Midwest, as well as Colorado, the idea that Obama had a special hold on the electorate is hard to sustain. A lot of '08 was simply a national anti-Bush, anti-recession wave that got pushed back around the Mason/Dixon line for obvious reasons. (Certain states exempted, of course.)
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