If Warner gets the nomination, what red states are in play?

[Smash255]

Who ran for President who was for gay marriage ro partial birth abortions? You seem to totally be mis-understanding what I'm staying. Schweitzer is opposed to gay marriage, but opposes the anti-gay marriage constituional amendment, just like Kerry, and just like Dean.

I was using examples to explain that re-framing our issues alone will not magically place a Democrat in the White House as you implied earlier.  The voters will see right through the BS.

What we have to do is re-gain the backbone the Democratic Party once had.  The reason we have lost the White House really has nothing to do with Socially liberal positions.  It has to do with the labeling the GOP has done, & been effective with.  We try to run away from an issue instead of tackling it straight on.  MOST Americans don't agree with either side on every issue, and will vote for those who don't agree with them on certain issues  One thing we have done as a party that has hurt us is by not defending the positions we take on certain issues, not fighting back on the attacks from the GOP we get on certain issues.  This makes the party appear as weak in the eyes of the public.  The public will vote for someone  even if they disagree with that person on certain issues as long as they show themselves to be strong & principled (polls show most Americans are pro-choice, and vast majority) Pro-Gun Control as well.  Yet the GOP has won because they have been stronger willed in the positions they take.  2000 for example with the whole Gun Control issue the GOP effectivley used the scare tatic "the Dems will take your Guns Away" we didn't fight  back on that issue,  fight on that issue with something like "we don't want to take your guns away, we just want top make sure guns don't get into the wrong hands' (take a strong principal with that argument) you probably win it

[Smash255]

Now, I'm not a Democrat, but since when was the "base" of the party those on the left end of the spectrum? The more your party panders to your "base," you lose your true base: Union workers, blue-collar workers, and other hard-working Americans. It's no coincidence Kerry lost West Virginia by double digits, and he lost Ohio.  Please, please, abandon your base. Your "base" will thank you for it, and so will I. I like winning elections.

Well both sides are guilty on this one.  Republicans have lost much of their suburban base because of their social views.  Long Island, Westchester NY, Bucks & Mont Co in PA, Fairfax in VA use to be very Republican areas, even just 15 years ago (less in the case of Fairfax)  & now has gone into pretty much safe Democratic hands

[Smash255]

So opposing the bankruptcy bill is pandering to your base, since the banktupcy bill can't hurt hard-working blue collar union workers? Thanks for missing the point.

Thats a winning issue supported by most if not all democrats.  We're talking about issues that only satisfy the extreme liberal base.  Gay Marriage, Partial Birth Abortion, Gun Control, Pussy Foreign Policy, etc...

How many Democrats are actually adocating gay-marriage.  THE PBA was a losing issue because the Dems let the GOP frame the argument (most of the opositoin to the bill was because of the mother's health exemption which wasn't into the bill) but when comfronted & talking about it, the Dems backed away & didn't really fight the issue through the health exemption.  Gun Control as I said in te post earlier, they lost the issue because they let the GOP frame the issue & the argument into "Take Your Guns Away" instead of "Keeping Guns out of the hands of Those who Shouldn't Handle them" (criminals, people with histories of violence, mental health issues).  The main problem the Dems have on some of these social issues, is not the issue itself, but the way the issue is framed.  Instead of Framing the issues themselves (or at least having both sides frame an issue) the issue is framed the way the Republicans want to frame it)  & the Dems make a big mistake by not fighting back on it.