Secret Ballot Procedure Bill

[King]

Like I said, we need to stop all this bureaucracy and decentralize the electoral process.

[King]

Aye
Aye

[King]

I can only say one thing about this bill: I hope it dies miserably.  There is no way we can prevent any sort of voter fraud from this bill.  Even if we went to a group of people counting the ballots, they could all just agree to be corrupted.

I think we should keep the ballot box open and blame the victims for editing their votes, even if they were manipulated.  They should learn how to read the big bold red print that says they cannot edit or repost their votes and have them counted.

[King]

Just a reminder to all my Senate colleagues who will be voting on this just because of the actions by the vote editing conspiracy, I remind them that it is much easier to be corrupt in a closed ballot box than on open ballot box.  And wouldn't it be easier to make voter manipulation illegal than the manipulation of votes by a committee of 3-5 people using a secret ballot system based on PMs that limit voter turnout to 100 (PM box size limits, I believe).  You guys are just asking for more work.

[King]

Abstain.  I plan to vote against this bill regardless of any changes that are made so my opinion on amendments is worthless.

[King]

I have one more amendment:

Section 10

Once a secret ballot is submitted to the three electoral comission members the Secretary of Forum Affairs shall, as soon as possible, post this ballot in the official voting booth for that election. This ballot must not include the name of the voter or any definitive markings that could compromise the anonymity of the said secret voter.  

So, instead of a registered voter casting a public ballot in the voting booth thread, they send it into 3 guys to look at who then send it to the Secretary of Forum Affairs to post it in the voting booth thread.  How practical!

[King]

Secret ballots will lead to boring, uneventful elections.  Colin's latest amendment would just make secret ballot a more complicated method of public voting...


I support it just so this bill will be either (a) defeated or (b) repealed after the next election cycle.

[King]

You know, if we do pass this thing, we should also order the creation of a new account that certain members of the government have access to where all the votes are sent to.  Also, to prevent fraud, let's require every person who has sent in a ballot to notify that they have voted in a thread created by the SoFA so when the ballots are counted we can check to see if there where any votes deleted from the count.

EDIT:  Wow.  After reading everything in this thread, I think I just came up with the best idea to prevent voting fraud.

[King]

I'm not a senator, so i dont know if im supposed to post in here, or if my opion matters, but i would like to say that i love this plan.

The Atlasian Senate isn't like those damn commies in the U.S. Congress.  We like to hear from our voters and we pay attention to what they have to say.

[King]

I'd like to make this into an amendment:

You know, if we do pass this thing, we should also order the creation of a new account that certain members of the government have access to where all the votes are sent to. Also, to prevent fraud, let's require every person who has sent in a ballot to notify that they have voted in a thread created by the SoFA so when the ballots are counted we can check to see if there where any votes deleted from the count.

Gabu, can you please tell me the current state of this bill after all the amendments so I can see what needs to be changed?

[King]

Aye on any amendment I have yet to vote on.

[King]

Gabu, can you please tell me the current state of this bill after all the amendments so I can see what needs to be changed?

[King]

I'll post an amendment late Friday.

[King]

Family barbeque had to attend.  Give me until tomorrow....60% done with amendment.

[King]

Here is the amendment.  If you don't like a particular part of it, then approve of this and then amend the amendment:

King Amendment to Section 2
(a).  Section 2 shall be removed and replaced with the following:

Section 2

1.  Secret ballot votes shall be cast using the SMF Private Messaging (PM) system to a single non-posting account created by the Secretary of Forum Affairs.

2.  The password for this account shall be changed after every general election and then be distributed to the current holders of the offices of Secretary of Forum Affairs, Deputy Secretary of Forum Affairs, and a delegate from the Senate who will serve as the Committee on Private Voting to count such votes. The Senate delegate shall be selected by the President Pro Tempore of the Senate or elected by a Senate vote if the President Pro Tempore is not available.

3.  If a special election is called, the Committee on Private Voting from the previous election shall administer the secret ballot votes for the special election.

Section 3

To prevent fraud in the counting of secret ballots, persons who opt to use the secret ballot shall be required to (a) send a single copy of the ballot to the official PM account and (b) post a statement in an official secret ballot signature thread created by one of the secret voting overseers in which they give a signature as notification of their secret ballot vote. If a voter fails to post their signature in the thread before voting closes, their vote shall not be disqualified from counting.

Section 4

1.  Once an election has ended, the Committee must release a list of all voters who have cast a secret ballot and whether their votes are valid or invalid.

2.  The list of invalid votes must include a reason why each vote was disqualified.

3.  If a voter who has given signature is not listed and a record of the vote can be obtained in the Inbox of the private voting account, the vote shall be legally counted.  The election shall not be certified until such votes have been counted.

4(a).  If a voter who has given signature is not listed and a record of the vote cannot be obtained, the voter shall be granted the right to file a civil case against the members of the Committee for voting fraud.

4(b).  If five or more voters who have given signature are not listed and a record of the votes cannot be obtained, the Attorney General shall be granted the right to file a criminal case against the members of the Committee for voting fraud.

4(c).  If a voter is found responsible for either offense of 4(a) or 4(b), the Attorney General shall be granted the right to file a criminal case against the voter for legal fraud.

(b). The clause "The method of vote submission is outlined in Section 2, Clause 4 below." in Section 1, Clause 1 shall be removed.

[King]

4(a).  If a voter who has given signature is not listed and a record of the vote cannot be obtained, the voter shall be granted the right to file a civil case against the members of the Committee for voting fraud.

4(b).  If five or more voters who have given signature are not listed and a record of the votes cannot be obtained, the Attorney General shall be granted the right to file a criminal case against the members of the Committee for voting fraud.

Let as assume that a few voters get together and decide to sign that they have voted without having actually sent a ballot. On what basis shall a court decide whether the fraud has been committed by the voters or by the committee members? What evidence could either side conceivably present?

Whistleblowers, I guess.  Somebody saying a little too much on AIM or Teamspeak.  That is how it works in the real world.

I don't understand why a group people would throw away their vote for no reason anyway.

[King]

Nay on the amendment as it completely undermines my amendment right after this.

[King]

It has been 24 hours and 7 minutes since debate on this amendment occured (a.k.a. there was no debate).  I motion for a recount vote!

Here is the amendment.  If you don't like a particular part of it, then approve of this and then amend the amendment:

King Amendment to Section 2
(a).  Section 2 shall be removed and replaced with the following:

Section 2

1.  Secret ballot votes shall be cast using the SMF Private Messaging (PM) system to a single non-posting account created by the Secretary of Forum Affairs.

2.  The password for this account shall be changed after every general election and then be distributed to the current holders of the offices of Secretary of Forum Affairs, Deputy Secretary of Forum Affairs, and a delegate from the Senate who will serve as the Committee on Private Voting to count such votes. The Senate delegate shall be selected by the President Pro Tempore of the Senate or elected by a Senate vote if the President Pro Tempore is not available.

3.  If a special election is called, the Committee on Private Voting from the previous election shall administer the secret ballot votes for the special election.

Section 3

To prevent fraud in the counting of secret ballots, persons who opt to use the secret ballot shall be required to (a) send a single copy of the ballot to the official PM account and (b) post a statement in an official secret ballot signature thread created by one of the secret voting overseers in which they give a signature as notification of their secret ballot vote. If a voter fails to post their signature in the thread before voting closes, their vote shall not be disqualified from counting.

Section 4

1.  Once an election has ended, the Committee must release a list of all voters who have cast a secret ballot and whether their votes are valid or invalid.

2.  The list of invalid votes must include a reason why each vote was disqualified.

3.  If a voter who has given signature is not listed and a record of the vote can be obtained in the Inbox of the private voting account, the vote shall be legally counted.  The election shall not be certified until such votes have been counted.

4(a).  If a voter who has given signature is not listed and a record of the vote cannot be obtained, the voter shall be granted the right to file a civil case against the members of the Committee for voting fraud.

4(b).  If five or more voters who have given signature are not listed and a record of the votes cannot be obtained, the Attorney General shall be granted the right to file a criminal case against the members of the Committee for voting fraud.

4(c).  If a voter is found responsible for either offense of 4(a) or 4(b), the Attorney General shall be granted the right to file a criminal case against the voter for legal fraud.

(b). The clause "The method of vote submission is outlined in Section 2, Clause 4 below." in Section 1, Clause 1 shall be removed.

[King]

Also, having a completely separate forum account is just asking for trouble in my eyes.  Who changes the password, who distributes it?  Does just one person have to remember the password at any point?  Does it get changed again after the non-committee member distributes the password?  This method would be even more open to fraud or some kind of error.

The current bill would create a system that would be used by 10 people on average and there would be a high chance that 9 of those votes would be invalid. 

I can guarantee you 100% of the tactical voters that vote between 11:50-11:59PM we are trying to stop would not use this system of sending three indectical personal messages as it takes too long.  That brings me to my next point, if a voter that does use the system puts a on two messages but not on the third have his vote invalid for not sending in an identical message?  Would most voters have the time to send 3 messages?  Would any of our members not as active in the fantasy board who vote even use the system?  They make up 3/4th the vote and if they don't use it then it is a worthless project.  What if flood controls prevent 3 messages to be sent in such a quick pace?  How will we know all 3 votes were the same?  We get over 110 votes and a change would likely go unnoticed.  The current bill at hand would lead to one thing:  a fraudlent pork-barrel project that produces low-turnout elections.

[King]

Eh, I still don't like this secret balloting idea anyway.

[King]

I also find it interesting that King originally supported the idea of a secret ballot back in February (when he joined Al's short-lived Chartist Caucus).  He now opposes the bill in its current form, based on the principle of it being overly bureaucratic.  So then he proposes an amendment that completely changes the bill, and actually leaves the degree of bureaucracy almost totally unchanged.

I'm not digging at him, but I just wanted to point it out anyway. 

I joined the Chartist Caucus just because I like to join caucuses and I'm not ashamed of that habit!


Oh, and Gabu you can divide it if you want.

[King]

Sorry King, no hard feelings. 

None taken.  At least we can see this get repealed in four months after the system fails and the election is stolen somehow have a secret ballot system.

[King]

I third, fourth, and fifth it.

[King]

Aye