Is Christopher Colombus a victim of Cancel Culture? (user search)
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  Is Christopher Colombus a victim of Cancel Culture? (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: Colombus Cancel Culture?
#1
Yes and he deserves it
 
#2
No because it's not Cancel Culture in his case
 
#3
Yes and he doesn't deserve it
 
#4
No because Cancel Culture doesn't exist
 
#5
Some other option
 
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Total Voters: 82

Author Topic: Is Christopher Colombus a victim of Cancel Culture?  (Read 3541 times)
Del Tachi
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« on: October 09, 2022, 02:02:52 PM »

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.
but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents of history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

#1 and #4 are just plain wrong. 

Columbus writes in the journal of his third voyage (1498) that America was "a mighty continent" "hitherto unknown."

The atrocities of Columbus are largely mythical and more correctly ascribed to Nicolas de Ovando, who was the Spanish governor of Hispaniola from 1501 to 1509.  A lot of the bad stuff attributed to Columbus is Black Legend revisionism pushed by later English and Dutch colonists.   
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Del Tachi
Republican95
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Posts: 17,978
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2022, 02:06:36 PM »

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.
but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

Leif Erikson became the first European to discover America half a millennium before Columbus did, and he didn't become a brutal dictator. Leif Erikson Day is on the 9th of October, one day before Columbus Day, but most people only heard about it from Spongebob.

It doesn't count as "discovering" something if you pack up, leave, and nothing ever becomes of it.  Before Columbus set sail in 1492, no one on either side of the Atlantic knew the other was there
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Del Tachi
Republican95
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Posts: 17,978
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2022, 02:14:44 PM »

Christopher Columbus was a tool in the most literal sense. If he was a victim of anything after his death, it was an inflated reputation in the United States from politicians attempting awkward appeals to ethnic Italians. For much of our history we understood that while Columbus played a pivotal role in exploring the continent, the English colonists deserved the credit for actually delivering civilization to much of this continent. The current anti-Columbus fervor is an abrupt regression toward the historical mean.

Ah, so all the places and things named after Columbus (i.e., Colombia, British Columbia, the District of Columbia, Columbus, OH; Columbia the personification of America, etc) didn't exist before American politicians wanted to court the Italian vote?  Nonsense.  Columbia was a highly venerated figure very early in our nation's history.
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Del Tachi
Republican95
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Posts: 17,978
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: 1.46

P P P

« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2022, 02:26:42 PM »

Christopher Columbus was a tool in the most literal sense. If he was a victim of anything after his death, it was an inflated reputation in the United States from politicians attempting awkward appeals to ethnic Italians. For much of our history we understood that while Columbus played a pivotal role in exploring the continent, the English colonists deserved the credit for actually delivering civilization to much of this continent. The current anti-Columbus fervor is an abrupt regression toward the historical mean.

Ah, so all the places and things named after Columbus (i.e., Colombia, British Columbia, the District of Columbia, Columbus, OH; Columbia the personification of America, etc) didn't exist before American politicians wanted to court the Italian vote?  Nonsense.  Columbia was a highly venerated figure very early in our nation's history.

This feels a bit of a stretch. Is the US being called "America" now or even being named "The United States of America" in 1776 really supposed to be seen as a statement of veneration towards Vespucci?

There is a growing myth that Columbus was a historical nobody who was plucked from obscurity in the 19th/early 20th century when Italians needed an "American" hero to help bring them in the White mainstream.  That idea simply isn't true and deserves pushback.  Columbus was a widely known about and celebrated figure less than 100 years after his death.  That there are many places/ideas (dating to the mid-1700s) that bear Columbus' name is suggestive of his enduring centrality in America's foundational story.   
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Del Tachi
Republican95
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*****
Posts: 17,978
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: 1.46

P P P

« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2022, 07:30:05 AM »

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.
but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents of history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

#1 and #4 are just plain wrong. 

Columbus writes in the journal of his third voyage (1498) that America was "a mighty continent" "hitherto unknown."

The atrocities of Columbus are largely mythical and more correctly ascribed to Nicolas de Ovando, who was the Spanish governor of Hispaniola from 1501 to 1509.  A lot of the bad stuff attributed to Columbus is Black Legend revisionism pushed by later English and Dutch colonists.   

Why are US conservatives so obsessed with defending Columbus? What is the connection, other than both being racist?

In the interest of truth?
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Del Tachi
Republican95
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,978
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: 1.46

P P P

« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2022, 08:47:46 AM »

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.
but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents of history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

#1 and #4 are just plain wrong. 

Columbus writes in the journal of his third voyage (1498) that America was "a mighty continent" "hitherto unknown."

The atrocities of Columbus are largely mythical and more correctly ascribed to Nicolas de Ovando, who was the Spanish governor of Hispaniola from 1501 to 1509.  A lot of the bad stuff attributed to Columbus is Black Legend revisionism pushed by later English and Dutch colonists.   

Why are US conservatives so obsessed with defending Columbus? What is the connection, other than both being racist?

In the interest of truth?

I see DT isn't convinced by the CNN article that my friend Torie posted either.  The truth is always some where in middle, especially with subjects that are over 500 years old.

Indeed.  The caricature of Columbus as a genocidal imperialist is as pseudo-historical as the savior-hero version who proved the earth was round.  Per usual, the reality is complex and somewhere in between.  Honoring Columbus for his feats of exploration and discovery of a New World inspires other enterprising individuals to step out into still unchartered waters and press new frontiers (which is exactly why Leftists bemoan him.)
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