Same-Sex Marriage Bill Falls Short in Maryland

[Thomas D]

On one hand I obviously want this to pass. But then it will be on the ballot in 2012 and those campaigns are always so ugly.

[Thomas D]

News organizations are acting as if getting 50k petition signatures will be really difficult... why is this? I know these people always lie while getting signatures, but 50k is a low number to begin with.

How do they lie while getting signatures?

We had something like this 10 years ago. The people would ask if the person supported gay rights, and if they said yes the person taking signatures would say something like: "This is a petition to support gay rights."

They got to 50,000 but a Judge threw them out. Which is why the nondiscrimination bill signed in 2001 was not on the 2002 ballot.

[Thomas D]

We have this thing called Article 1 Section 8 and the 10th Amendment and marriage is a state issue not a federal one.

Really? The consequence of that is that DOMA is unconstitutional when the federal government declines to recognize same-sex marriages conducted in states where they are legal. I have been paying $1,000+ a year in extra income tax to the federal government because my partner's health care is considered taxable income and the federal government doesn't recognize our marriage. If it did, it would be tax free. How does it advance your morality for me to pay out of pocket like that? Do you consider the financial cost your attitude has on people like me, without dissuading me in any way from being gay?

Ultimately I want government out of deciding who gets married. It belongs to religious intuitions.

So then would you support Civil Unions for gay people, and Straight people who the church doesn't want to marry, such as people who've been divorced?

[Thomas D]

Question for the homos and homo supporters here. Let's say that same-sex "marriage" passes in a State. A conservative Christian couple in said State does not wish to be put on the same level as this faux-"marriage" so they file for a divorce. After said divorce is granted, said couple goes to a church to be married again solely under the rules of said church, and said couple refuses to get a State marriage license.

1. Should the minister performing such a marriage without a license be punished?
2. Should the couple be punished for getting married without a license?
3. Should the State recognize the couple's religious marriage, despite the fact that said couple refuses to get a State license?
4. Say said couple then files their income taxes "married-filing jointly" should then be punished by the IRS?

Please justify your responses in a manner logically consistent with your rhetoric and talking points.

I'll take a shot.. No to all 4.

[Thomas D]

And I have the whole of human history on my side on this one.

Just because we've always done something one way doesn't make it right.

[Thomas D]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Very good, now can you explain why? Especially your response to 3 & 4, which are inconsistent with the prevailing rhetoric on this issue.

3. Should the State recognize the couple's religious marriage, despite the fact that said couple refuses to get a State license?

No. If you want the state to consider you married you have to get a state issued license.


4. Say said couple then files their income taxes "married-filing jointly" should they then be punished by the IRS? Should they be permitted to file in this manner?

No. Because the IRS should not be asking that question in the first place.

[Thomas D]

Who the hell are Kirk and Madsen?

[Thomas D]

Assuming a gay marriage ban referendum gets the required signatures to be put onto the ballot in 2012 in response to legalization, how likely is it that the legislature will be overruled by a more conservative citizenry?  If Proposition 8 could pass muster in California in 2008 (an otherwise reliably liberal Democratic state), what would make Maryland vote any differently?

Has there been any polling of Maryland on this issue?

Polling has shown a close race. I think Maryland may be different then California for a few reasons.

1. It will be 4 years later and support for gay marriage increases every year.
2. Maryland has a higher percentage of highly educated citizens.
3. This is not a ruling from a court. So no cry's of Judicial Activism.
4. Maryland is more liberal then California.

I've lived here my whole life. I believe if this goes to the voters in 2012 the forces of marriage equality will win. 52-48.

[Thomas D]

I stand corrected, it is not a sure thing in the Maryland House of Delegates, though they probably will have enough votes.

The House of Delgates is more liberal then the Senate.

[Thomas D]

The house panal passed the bill 12-10. It should go to the whole house next week.